May 16, 2010
In which John and Dave eschew the normal show format and spend an hour talking about whether it's really about the technology, and if technology really has had a substantial impact on technology.
18:55:35 Cathy E: Hello guys
18:55:52 JohnS: Hello, Cathy.
18:55:55 cyndidannerkuhn: Good evening
18:56:28 dave: starting up in 3 min
18:56:36 dave: we actually HAVE A TOPIC
18:56:50 Connie Sitterley: Sounds like a good one too
18:56:52 cyndidannerkuhn: and the topic is?
18:57:05 dave: "Is there actually a value in educational technology? Does that benefit outweigh the true costs?"
18:58:59 JohnS: http://davecormier.com/edblog/2010/05/15/smartboards-its-about-the-techn...
19:01:34 Harold Jarche: no significant difference - didn't Rory McGreal write a thesis on that?
19:03:19 cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, the research on tech in the classrooms, basically sucks!
19:04:21 Harold Jarche: but does action research meet "accepted" research methodology criteria? - Friere might have had some issues on methodologies
19:04:36 cyndidannerkuhn: magical criteria "we just made up" you just hit the nail on the head
19:05:08 cyndidannerkuhn: What do you think of Marzano's "research" with Promethean?
19:05:41 Harold Jarche: industry can always buy researchers (I've seen this)
19:06:26 Harold Jarche: all people at edtechtalk are crazy, Dave (the research proves it)
19:06:29 cyndidannerkuhn: Harold, I said that in a meeting and people when ballistic that I was bashing Marzano!!
19:06:52 dave: Marzano is a hack
19:06:56 Harold Jarche: @cyndi - will have to look up Marzano (new to me)
19:07:16 cyndidannerkuhn: just a sec, I will give you the link
19:07:20 Harold Jarche: thx
19:07:57 Harold Jarche: I'm blushing, Dave
19:08:03 cyndidannerkuhn: http://davecormier.com/edblog/2010/0 ... y-and-it-isnt/
19:08:38 Connie Sitterley: Marzano has been around a long time and has been accepted for many of his thoughts, so, he is assumed be believable with regard to iwb
19:08:47 Harold Jarche: was Marzano in that post?
19:09:43 Harold Jarche: Technology is the application of organized and scientific knowledge to solve practical problems.
19:10:32 Harold Jarche: Dave's right, not much new in last 10 years
19:11:15 Harold Jarche: I should pull up my posts from the late '90's - nothing has really changed
19:11:23 cyndidannerkuhn: Harold, here is the link to Marzano's stuff www.promotheanplanet.com/server.php?show=nav.19109
19:12:08 cyndidannerkuhn: what document are you talking about? Is there a link
19:12:36 Harold Jarche: @cyndi got a horrible splash screen with offers for airline ticktes - ?
19:13:09 Gary: I recently "returned" to to classroom teaching after a 3 year "retirement" - someone on a maternity leave to end of June. The chalk boards are now gone (replaced by a SmartBoard). I am not sure much has changed - I still need to work very hard on making sure the students are learning.
19:13:28 Cathy E: the projector will allow for bring in far away people and places
19:13:52 cyndidannerkuhn: Hrold, go to PrometheanPlanet.com and search for Marzano, The study is called Innovation in Education
19:13:54 Cathy E: *bringing
19:14:00 Harold Jarche: OK - thx
19:15:11 cyndidannerkuhn: I think the projectors first is a better plan
19:15:11 JohnS: Anybody want in on this? Skype Dave.
19:15:12 Harold Jarche: In NB, keyboard stroke monitoring slows down the system so much that teachers can't use the Net - Smart Boards, stupid administrators
19:15:12 Cathy E: we use school pads by interwrite
19:15:24 Cathy E: $400 vs $2000 for Smart Board
19:16:08 Harold Jarche: Dave - those criticisms come from people who don't understand networked learning
19:16:11 Cathy E: technology is the only way to collect data
19:16:23 cyndidannerkuhn: Principals go to conferences ans see smartboards, think they are cool, buy a bunch, spending tons of money and neglect to include "how to use them."
19:16:35 Connie Sitterley: Got iwb with a grant for several teachers-once placed some didn't use them-didn't care if they were removed but demanded to keep projector-being used to show same videos they have used for years
19:16:42 JohnS: Right, Cyndi, or Why to use them.
19:17:22 cyndidannerkuhn: Very true John!!
19:18:10 cyndidannerkuhn: That is the big issue with all technology, most school districts do not have a VISION!! long term vision and plan
19:18:50 Harold Jarche: Smart Board = OHP of the 21st century (good point John)
19:18:59 cyndidannerkuhn: I there a link to how to make a projector for $50
19:20:31 cyndidannerkuhn: I do think the projector
19:21:09 Cathy E: Google Docs - being able to have your stuff no matter where you are ...is HUGE
19:21:53 Harold Jarche: Mobile Devices? (so students can bypass the school IT system)
19:22:04 Gary: The word processor - remember when students handed in project, labs, essays, etc hand written and final exams needed to be submitted to secretaries to be types so that they could be prineted?
19:22:16 cyndidannerkuhn: I do think having laptops for students availalbe to use when it is appropriate is prety important
19:22:16 Cathy E: Email - for communication with parents
19:22:33 Cathy E: the students too
19:22:42 Harold Jarche: our high school still requires printed submissions for all assignments
19:22:43 Cathy E: working in groups
19:23:21 cyndidannerkuhn: I also agree, the interent, could be, BUT when the network nazi's block everything, the internet becomes pointless
19:23:44 Harold Jarche: never seen a threaded discussion for our two high school age boys
19:23:50 Cathy E: and for kids being able to "Post" their work and having other comment has also been huge
19:24:04 Cathy E: they are no longer writing or creating work just for the teacher
19:24:14 Connie Sitterley: Our students have apps for ed and it has made a difference for them-they do work collaboratively-and fewer problems with compatibility (Microsoft was installed on desktops)
19:24:15 cyndidannerkuhn: what do you use for threaded discussions now?
19:24:24 Cathy E: so blogs, webpages, etc
19:26:01 cyndidannerkuhn: It seems for technology to be transfomative in the classroom, teachers have to be exposed to how to integrate it effectively and have a comfort zone before it can become transformational
19:26:37 Harold Jarche: the workplace is changing, and schools better change with it http://is.gd/cbS6o [sorry, blatant self-promotion] - it's not technology, it's understanding how global networks have changed our lives
19:27:43 Cathy E: Google calendar is worth $1000000
19:27:46 cyndidannerkuhn: No Macs in your district, I am so sorry for you!!
19:28:19 cyndidannerkuhn: There is a local district near me that has Banned and blocked all google tools
19:29:02 cyndidannerkuhn: I don't think schools or college reflect the work force.
19:29:25 Harold Jarche: so prepare them for change!
19:29:45 Cathy E: there you go Harold
19:30:18 Connie Sitterley: That has been the argument for having to have Microsoft/Windows in schools for years-"business uses it"
19:30:49 Connie Sitterley: There are different ways to meet those competencies now than 50 years ago
19:31:29 Harold Jarche: business is just as confused as schools (I know)
19:31:41 Gary: @Connie - our school district actually used that argument to prevent the use of Macs in the classroom....no argument would change the view that the type of technoloogy of irrelevant.
19:32:06 Gary: was irrelevant
19:32:58 Connie Sitterley: Our district tried that also-but thankfully a more balance approach won out-district was split mac/win-a little difficult to support but great for users-they could use the tool that was best
19:33:26 cyndidannerkuhn: Sadly NCLB includes any of those things you just said!! It flys in the face of creativity!
19:33:54 cyndidannerkuhn: I mean does not include any creativity
19:34:03 Harold Jarche: need to teach defiance (which is the core of critical thinking)
19:34:14 cyndidannerkuhn: I agree Harold
19:34:20 JohnS: ds?! really? Cool.
19:34:44 Harold Jarche: http://www.jarche.com/2007/02/teaching-defiance/
19:34:58 cyndidannerkuhn: Me too!!!
19:35:02 sharon: Look at the Tinkering School, for example
19:35:08 Gary: @ Much better than what happened here. The decision was made by a technologist and an adminstrator that new very little about technology.
19:35:14 sharon: And creation is the top level of Bloom's
19:35:18 Harold Jarche: Hi Doug :)
19:35:51 jeffmason: The [i]system[/i] will never be about creativity, but the classroom may be.
19:35:56 ds: Hi all, still trying to get audio to play on this end, but great to see you all
19:35:59 Harold Jarche: Bloom's should be put in the trash heap where it belongs
19:36:16 cyndidannerkuhn: It is going to be a pretty boring world in a few years the way our education system is going now!!
19:36:22 sharon: Hey, it is one of the things that teachers recognize
19:36:41 sharon: thanks guys!
19:36:52 sharon: we have Monika Hardy with a heap of her students tonight
19:37:16 Harold Jarche: re: Bloom http://www.jarche.com/2004/03/old28/
19:37:28 cyndidannerkuhn: lol
19:37:37 cyndidannerkuhn: you guys are great
19:37:39 Harold Jarche: we luv your voice, dave!
19:37:52 Connie Sitterley: Maybe the biggest result of technology in the classroom is the discussion of change that it has brought
19:37:55 sharon: :)
19:37:58 Gary: Beside multi-tasking is a myth guys.
19:38:13 Harold Jarche: John: both
19:38:32 cyndidannerkuhn: I agree!!
19:38:33 Cathy E: job security for me
19:39:20 Harold Jarche: should replace smart boards with edtechtalk, IMO
19:39:28 cyndidannerkuhn: yes, laptops for everybody!!
19:39:38 Gary: I know of a school district administrator that thought that a virtual school project was a way of saving money - he could hire fewer teachers and have them deal with larger groups of students.
19:39:55 sharon: thanks for the link, Harold, am avidly reading about the evils of Bloom - the Bereiter and Scardamalia article looks good....
19:40:07 jeffmason: when was the last time classroom teachers were asked what they needed. whiteboards are a district level mandate
19:40:32 sharon: yes, the controversial topic thing works
19:40:41 Connie Sitterley: As a tech director I asked-and some got things they actually use to student benefit
19:40:43 Harold Jarche: great to join, after many years - thx dave & john!
19:40:56 cyndidannerkuhn: Interesting discussion, thanks guys, alwasy good
19:41:20 JohnS: @Connie, what technology makes a difference?
19:41:22 sharon: "Don't get all Jeff on me!" LOL
19:41:39 Harold Jarche: you know my problems with background noise, dave
19:42:04 celia: Thanks for interesting chat - listening from melbourne Australia
19:42:22 cyndidannerkuhn: toodles
19:43:15 Connie Sitterley: @JohnS the conversations that occur because of the introduction of tech is what I mean may be the biggest benefit-regardless of what the tech is
19:43:28 JohnS: yep, gotcha
19:46:34 Connie Sitterley: So what does the classroom look like when there has been change relating to technology?
19:48:21 ds: hey again :)
19:48:50 JohnS: Hey doug. We've missed you.
19:49:21 ds: thx John, have missed the whole crew here too
19:51:06 cyndidannerkuhn: Do you have an iPad Yet?
19:51:24 JohnS: I don't have one. I don't think Dave has one.
19:52:21 Cathy E: My daughter just grad from college - she wanted an iPad as her gift
19:53:01 Cathy E: it will arrive in a few days
19:54:49 Gary: Talk about "fast end". I remember milk being delivered by horse, party lines on phones and my father delivered telegraph messages by bicycle.
19:55:11 dave: @gary wow. telegraph on bicycle
19:56:00 Gary: @Dave - the paper message that was hand written at the telegraph office
19:57:46 cyndidannerkuhn: Filtering is hard.
19:57:58 Harold Jarche: http://workliteracy.ning.com/
19:58:37 Gary: @dave - I received my university entrace acceptace via a telegraph message because there was a postal strike at the time.
19:58:47 cyndidannerkuhn: I joined your course, but am only a lerker!! I wish I was engaging in it, but timning just sucked for me, although I am learning from reading and listening to the things going on in your course;
19:58:48 dave: ha!
19:59:57 ds: like the notion of different roles Harold
20:00:16 ds: take care all, great to hear some live action been too long
20:00:17 Gary: It was in the 60's!
20:00:19 Connie Sitterley: bye
20:00:22 Harold Jarche: check the link, doug, roles are explained (before ning cans us)
20:00:25 Gary: Thanks again.
20:00:33 ds: :)