Teachers Teaching Teachers #131 - Discussing Participatory Culture - 12.03.08

This podcast grows from a session at this year's National Writing Project's Annual Meeting.We were joined by Joe Bellino from the Maryland Writing Project, Karen McComas from the Marshall University Writing Project, and Christina Cantrill, a program associate with the National Writing Project. 

Joe, Karen, and Christina were the facilitators of a session last month at the National Writing Project's Annual Meeting titled Reading the Research: Media Education and Literacy in the 21st Century. This session and their conversation with us focused on a white paper published by the New Media Literacies Project at MIT titled Confronting the Challenges of Participatory Culture: Media Education for the 21st Century, by Henry Jenkins.

A few other teachers joined us as well to tell stories about how they teach digital writing and work with colleagues in their schools and Writing Projects:

• Susan Biggs and Kevin Hodgson from the Western Massachusetts Writing Project
• Fred Hass from the Boston Writing Project
• Beth Rimer, Ohio Writing Project

Enjoy! Read the paper, and continue the conversation in the cultures where you partiipate.

Click Read more to see a transcript of a chat that was happening during the webcast.

20:29:43 Christina: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/programs/ti?x-t=events.view
20:32:24 SusanEttenheim: hi christina!
20:42:03 SusanEttenheim: hi jenna welcome!
20:42:25 jennamcjenna: hello hello hello
20:42:28 jennamcjenna: am i in the right place?
20:42:54 SusanEttenheim: yes if it's for Teachers Teaching Teachers!
20:45:02 Christina: hello Susan, hello Jenna
20:46:33 Bron: hello
20:47:09 Bron: Is the the place for the  Henry Jenkins' Parcitipatory Culture discussion?
20:47:20 SusanEttenheim: yes indeed!
20:47:32 Bron: Excellent!
20:47:57 SusanEttenheim: hi eleroo welcome!
20:48:03 Eleroo: Hi:)
20:49:28 Eleroo: Hi Henry Jenkins streaming right now?? 
20:49:46 Eleroo: I don't hear anything and usually do when I come to these.
20:49:52 SusanEttenheim: not until 9
20:50:04 SusanEttenheim: you're welcome to chat here until then!
20:50:15 Eleroo: Oh I am early great!  I am usually just catching the ends :)
20:50:15 SusanEttenheim: welcome klmccomas!
20:50:26 klmccomas: Hi Susan - it's Karen....
20:50:33 klmccomas: should have used my name and not initials :)
20:50:54 SusanEttenheim: hi Karen!
20:52:53 Kevin Hodgson: Hi
20:53:27 jennamcjenna: hi, kevin!
20:54:12 Kevin Hodgson: It's been some time since I've entered this Chat Room. I had look around for my dusty map. ha
20:54:40 Eleroo: lol
20:57:51 Paul Allison: Welcome.
20:57:59 Paul Allison: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/events/387
20:59:17 Bron: starting soon?
20:59:49 alicebarr: @Bron probably in just a minute
20:59:57 Bron: great
21:00:18 Paul Allison: Do you want to join us Alice?
21:00:38 alicebarr: Sure, give me 5?
21:02:04 JoseRodriguez: Hey Folks
21:02:10 Kevin Hodgson: Howdy
21:02:10 SusanEttenheim: hi you should all hear us now?
21:02:23 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone welcome!
21:02:26 JoseRodriguez: streaming on ETT A?
21:02:42 Eleroo: hi
21:02:52 alicebarr: ready when you are
21:03:06 JoseRodriguez: Hi James
21:03:30 Paul Allison: Alice... Can we invite you in a bit later? We're up to 10 already.
21:03:51 ruyoung: audio seems considerably low on etta
21:03:58 James Sigler: Hey Jose
21:04:03 Bron: not hearing anything yet
21:04:07 alicebarr: Of course
21:04:09 ruyoung: yes
21:04:10 Bron: is it started
21:04:19 SusanEttenheim: how does the audio sound for everyone else?
21:04:29 Eleroo: I can't hear anything
21:04:35 Bron: me either
21:04:39 JoseRodriguez: @james btw "I love teaching 3 grade" too :-)
21:04:49 James Sigler: Susan sounds fine, but others sound low
21:04:51 Eleroo: It still says "not streaming
21:04:56 ruyoung: susan is much louder compared to others
21:05:02 James Sigler: @ Jose :)
21:05:25 SusanEttenheim: thank you ruyoung
21:05:33 Bron: page says currently not streaming
21:05:54 Eleroo: I refreshed my page and now I can hear it
21:06:02 fhaas: Try refreshing the screen.
21:06:07 JoseRodriguez: She can always switch to mac
21:06:13 SusanEttenheim: last audio check! how does it sound?
21:06:23 JoseRodriguez: It sounds ok
21:06:29 James Sigler: All low now
21:06:32 ruyoung: everyone is low.  my volume is turned far up.
21:06:33 Kevin Hodgson: Jose is buying Macs for all of us -- whohoooo
21:06:37 SusanEttenheim: thank you everyone
21:06:45 ruyoung: but at least everyone is about the same now.
21:06:48 SusanEttenheim: hi gail!
21:06:53 James Sigler: Paul sounds quiet
21:06:59 Kevin Hodgson: Hey ya Gail
21:07:17 James Sigler: Yeah Jose!
21:07:23 gail desler: Hi Kevin!!!
21:07:24 JoseRodriguez: @kevin have you checked today's lottery numbers? otherwise it's a no go on the mac thing
21:07:32 Bron: not hearing
21:07:35 Kevin Hodgson: 05 11 13 43 55 9985
21:07:39 James Sigler: Ahhhh :(
21:07:47 alexr: Howdy TTT.
21:07:48 SusanEttenheim: thanks and welcome everyone!
21:08:00 SusanEttenheim: please introduce yourself! where and what do you teach?
21:08:03 alicebarr: My husband grew up in Stow
21:08:26 alicebarr: Hi alice barr Tech integrator from Yarmouth ME
21:08:33 James Sigler: I teach 3rd grade in Joplin, MO
21:08:40 alexr: Alex Ragone, Tech Director, Photography and Webdesign
21:08:40 Kevin Hodgson: I teach sixth grade in Western Massachusetts and am the tech liaison with Western Mass Writing Project
21:09:15 JoseRodriguez: 3rd Grade in Los Angeles I teach a bit of academics, a bit of social skills and a bunch of "disruptive technologies"
21:09:41 fhaas: Fred Haas HS English Hopkinton, MA.
21:09:44 gail desler: I'm a tech integration specialist for the Elk Grove School Distrcit in Calif
21:10:03 Kevin Hodgson: Fred -- not too far away from me -- out in Northampton (teach in Southampton)
21:10:22 Jenna McWilliams: hi hi hi, I'm the curriculum specialist on henry jenkins's research project, Project New Media Literacies
21:10:24 gail desler: Hi Jose - I'm Alice Mercer's frienc
21:10:44 JoseRodriguez: Hi Gail..
21:11:17 gail desler: Hi Susan
21:11:56 Bron: Bron Stuckey here in Australia - I work as post doc as IU with Sasha Barab and work in teacher professional development and research for the MUVE Quest Atlantis
21:11:59 fhaas: Kevin - Indeed, a bit of hike, but I might find myself out there. A good friend headed back home to South Hadley.
21:12:12 Jenna McWilliams: @ Bron, I work with Dan Hickey at IU!
21:12:29 Eleroo: Middle school teacher in Michigan here
21:12:34 Bron: Hey Jenna - great to meet you
21:12:38 James Sigler: International audience!  Woohoo! :)
21:12:53 gail desler: lol at Christina's background "yea"
21:12:58 SusanEttenheim: welcome Bron!
21:13:08 Bron: @ Jenna - give Dan a big hug from me
21:13:11 SusanEttenheim: Fred I have lots of South Hadley connections!
21:13:19 Susan: Hi Gail!
21:13:25 gail desler: HI Susan
21:13:40 JoseRodriguez: I like to pop in at TTT every once in while.... helps me gain a perspective to where my students need to be in the future
21:13:46 Jenna McWilliams: @Bron would love to talk to you separately about IU and the LS prog
21:14:16 fhaas: A colleague I cotaught a class with just relocated back to the South Hadley area.
21:14:21 SusanEttenheim: hi felicia welcome!
21:14:27 klmccomas: hi felicia!
21:14:34 gail desler: @JoseR - I've learned to keep a notepad with me during the TTT sessions - I always walk away with gems
21:14:36 SusanEttenheim: ahh why there Fred?
21:14:36 Kevin Hodgson: Shadley is a nice place. one of our tech team folks works there.
21:14:47 Paul Allison: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2713
21:14:56 SusanEttenheim: I loved the article!
21:15:01 felicia: Hi Karen.  It has taken me 15 minutes to get onto the program and I'm still not able to listen
21:15:04 SusanEttenheim: what did you all thnk?
21:15:08 JoseRodriguez: @gail good advice
21:15:09 fhaas: Susan- He grew up there and headed back home.
21:15:12 gail desler: Hi Felicia
21:15:18 SusanEttenheim: glad you're here felicia!
21:15:31 klmccomas: oh no felicia....at least you can access it later!
21:15:32 SusanEttenheim: wow that's funny fred! - son of faculty?
21:15:41 alicebarr: Using this white paper with teachers in our district
21:15:50 Kevin Hodgson: Participatory Culture -- I think of how we can guide our students into the world through a variety of paths, including the social aspects of networks and "communities"
21:16:30 James Sigler: Agree with felicia.  Can hardly hear
21:16:42 Bron: yes sound levels very low
21:16:44 fhaas: Susan- No just fromt he area but his girlfriend just finished grad school.
21:16:50 SusanEttenheim: I loved that play was at the top of the list! but then I'm a Bank Streeter!
21:17:00 Kevin Hodgson: I liked the list in the white paper of skills: play, performance, collective intelligence, etc
21:17:03 JoseRodriguez: If my students can have access to others outside our classroom walls then I am on the right path
21:17:08 SusanEttenheim: can you all just turn your audio up?
21:17:23 Paul Allison: http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/events/387
21:17:36 Kevin Hodgson: http://digitallearning.macfound.org/atf/cf/%7B7E45C7E0-A3E0-4B89-AC9C-E8...
21:17:44 SusanEttenheim: we were video conferencing today with students in iceland and I loved the last item on that list!
21:17:46 James Sigler: sound already maxxed
21:17:59 SusanEttenheim: hummm - that's unusual james..
21:18:30 SusanEttenheim: how is the sound now?
21:18:56 James Sigler: a little better.  I can at least understand them now
21:19:02 SusanEttenheim: rather lengthy/// hahaha
21:19:09 JoseRodriguez: sound is fine
21:19:09 SusanEttenheim: ok good
21:19:17 SusanEttenheim:  let us know if it's bad!
21:19:20 felicia: The article was great! Hi Gail and Susan
21:19:26 Kevin Hodgson: Mentorship -- yes
21:19:46 Christina: http://newmedialiteracies.org/
21:20:07 Kevin Hodgson: The social connection will draw many young people in and then our role is try to show them the vast possibilities for composition and connections, right?
21:20:12 James Sigler: switched to headphones.  Much better.
21:20:28 Christina: The paper can be downloaded here.
21:20:28 Jenna McWilliams: you can see more of Project New Media Literacies' work at http://projectnml.ning.com/
21:21:13 Kevin Hodgson: Karen is right on -- shaping technology for meaning
21:21:25 felicia: I can't keep up with the chat.  My computer doesn't work fast enough.
21:22:03 Kevin Hodgson: You're in luck, Felicia: Jose almost won the lottery and almost bought us all Macs tonight.
21:22:15 SusanEttenheim: almost?
21:22:28 Kevin Hodgson: if you blinked, you missed
21:23:07 James Sigler: True.  Students need our pedogogical guidance for their technological know how
21:23:28 James Sigler: Otherwise kids will just use tech to entertain themselves
21:24:26 felicia: When does entertainment become educational?
21:24:29 Jenna McWilliams: i've been thinking about how ncte had a forum during the annual convention and most attendees just never went to it
21:24:31 Bron: speak up please - so soft
21:24:40 SusanEttenheim: hi akeller - please introduce yourself! where and what do you teach?
21:24:43 Jenna McWilliams: it felt too much like a school assignment to people
21:24:55 Kevin Hodgson: What session, Jenna?
21:24:59 Jenna McWilliams: it was a case of trying to integrate tech in a way that kinda felt,...inauthentic
21:25:13 Jenna McWilliams: it was a thing that was intended to be used throughout the convention
21:25:35 Kevin Hodgson: Ack -- not a school assignment
21:25:38 Jenna McWilliams: and so, ok, i WORK on a project that's about new media literacies and i didnt' even BOTHER visiting the forum
21:25:44 akeller: Hi, currently Curriculum director for English; formerly grades 7 and 8 English teacher
21:27:19 James Sigler: eNews just had an article today about resource for incorpoarating P21 21st cent. skills in English classroom http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/index.cfm?i=56256
21:27:56 James Sigler: @Jenna why?
21:28:19 Jenna McWilliams: well,
21:28:28 gail desler: Thanks, James, I'm checking out the article right now
21:28:45 Jenna McWilliams: it felt so inauthentic. i mean, i was IN a room with all these great people. why would i go to an asynchronous discussion when i was talking about stuff in real time?
21:29:06 Kevin Hodgson: not so much about machine, but about the human behind it - yes, right on
21:29:12 felicia: I guess I'll have to listen to the podcast later because I still can't get any sound.  How do you folks check out articles and chat and listen to the webcast?
21:29:38 alicebarr: @felicia, not easy, look at articles later :)
21:29:42 Bron: human to human communication not human to machine
21:29:50 SusanEttenheim: ahh felicia - how do my students text,do work, and chat with friends at once... while listening to music!
21:30:27 James Sigler: @felicia, yes, read, listen, and think at 100 miles an hour. 
21:30:42 James Sigler: All about synthesis of ideas
21:31:44 James Sigler: @Susan is it because they are giving partial attention to all, and not full attention to any?
21:31:48 fhaas: There was an old AT&T slogan "In a world of technology, people make the difference." Seems more on the mark all the time.
21:32:07 SusanEttenheim: I don't think so James
21:32:25 SusanEttenheim: because they will stop and do one or the other as needed
21:32:40 SusanEttenheim: I think they just make smooth transitions
21:32:54 James Sigler: Web 2.0 technologies about bringing people together.  Web 1.0 kept us apart.
21:33:17 alexr: This is a great paper on 21st century skills -- DOes a great job of bring together age old skills with the 21st century: http://www.educationsector.org/research/research_show.htm?doc_id=716323
21:33:20 Kevin Hodgson: NPR recently did an interesting series on multitasking, including some brain work that shows that teens brains seem to be developing differently in this information world
21:33:28 gail desler: @JamesS - and that's a significant difference
21:33:30 Jenna McWilliams: yet web 2.0 tools get filtered in most schools, but 1.0 often gets through
21:33:38 Kevin Hodgson: James: and, ahem, Web 3.0?
21:33:43 felicia: The problem is my connection.  This will probably start working once the show is over.
21:33:53 SusanEttenheim: yes Kevin
21:34:38 felicia: So, what's the difference, Kevin?  More synapses?
21:34:50 SusanEttenheim: don't worry felicia it will all be available!
21:34:51 James Sigler: @Susan interesting.  multitasking is filling the gaps while waiting for ads to finish or page to finish loading.
21:35:00 klmccomas: kevin, i think that's so fascinating - the brain research - makes me wonder if ADD is a new way of being in a sound byte world and not really a disability?
21:35:15 klmccomas: ;)
21:35:24 Kevin Hodgson: I think so, and not that such a thing is always a good thing, either. Stress to keep up and some inability for deep focus on one task can be a problem
21:35:45 Kevin Hodgson: ADD -- hmmmm
21:35:58 SusanEttenheim: hi ishan welcome!
21:36:04 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:36:13 James Sigler: @klmcomas Tech is catching up to ADHA students.  Are schools?
21:36:33 James Sigler: opps @Kevinn
21:36:36 gail desler: @Joe Bellino - I'm also working with students who've not yet embraced participatory cultures - partly for lack of access to the Internet at home
21:36:57 Kevin Hodgson: I'm glad you brought up access, Gail. I think this is a huge issue.
21:36:59 Jenna McWilliams: oh, hey, at NML we have a teachers' guide that can be used in very tech-light classrooms--because we're arguing that while technology is what made these skills important, it's not ABOUT the technology.
21:37:15 Bron: yes the rich get connected and...
21:37:31 gail desler: @Kevin - lots of students are still digital immigrants
21:37:55 Jenna McWilliams: but those who don't have access to participation at home are the ones who most NEED to work with this stuff in the classroom
21:38:02 Kevin Hodgson: I'd like to see that guide, Jenna. I agree with your point but know, from working with a variety of school districts, that many tech labs are used for standardized testing -- for days and days and days at a time
21:38:04 Jenna McWilliams: stupid social injustice
21:38:11 gail desler: @Jenna Agree!!!
21:38:15 Bron: eeew hate that term "digital immigrants" but agree totally wiht you gail!
21:39:02 gail desler: @Kevin I'm increasingly umimpressed with use of elementary computer lab time - very 20th century for the most part
21:39:25 Bron: but most social tools are banned in Aus - no Google, twitter, blogs other than approved or internal etc etc - so access is not just an economic issue
21:39:32 Kevin Hodgson: Labs should be dismantled and tech integration in the classroom should be the norm -- not some isolated activity
21:39:33 Bron: it is politcal as well
21:39:39 Jenna McWilliams: well, but it IS an economic issue on some level
21:39:47 Jenna McWilliams: because the rich kids learn how to "do" social network sites at home
21:39:56 gail desler: @Bron - interesting point
21:39:59 Jenna McWilliams: and the poorer don't learn how to negotiate 2.0 tools
21:40:21 Jenna McWilliams: so it's not about rich schools and poor schools, but about rich kids and poor kids
21:40:22 James Sigler: Agreed.  Computers need to move from computer lab to the classroom.
21:40:25 Bron: yes true - yes and non-rich kids are further disadvantaged when the school cannot offer the tools
21:40:29 Kevin Hodgson: So, is the answer a one-to-one program? I think those have had mixed results, eh?
21:40:56 James Sigler: @Kevin 2:1, 4:1?
21:41:22 James Sigler: I have a 2:1 classroom now with thin clients.
21:41:30 Kevin Hodgson: James: Sounds like my house (not making my wife so happy, though)
21:41:45 Bron: policies hae to change to offer the advantage as school to those disadvantaged at home
21:41:50 fhaas: I am not sure that the answer is one-to-one, but a more differentiated approach is likely needed.
21:42:04 James Sigler: The computers are not powerful, but work well as internet appliances for Web 2.0 tools.
21:42:32 Jenna McWilliams: @Bron, yes, or at least the meta-knowledge to give them the ability to take on new technologies and norms and values etc.
21:42:43 Kevin Hodgson: Appliances .. reminds me of Battlestar Galactica -- "toasters" are the robot cylons
21:42:59 Bron: Web2.0 is more than tools it is a cultural change
21:43:12 Jenna McWilliams: agreed
21:43:43 James Sigler: @fhaas Agreed.  The focus should not be on the technology.  The focus should be on how the tech helps us differeniate instruction/.
21:43:47 Bron: kids with no access to the tools and strategies are not just missing out on skills
21:44:01 Jenna McWilliams: oh, just fyi: the white paper describes 11 new media literacies skills, but we've added a twelfth
21:44:05 Jenna McWilliams: visualization
21:44:37 rimer: I had an interesting e-mail today saying that their school won't even let them work with participatory culture in fear of lawsuits.  So, even when teachers want to their schools won't let them
21:44:38 JoseRodriguez: oops steepped out for quick dinner and now on my way to take daughter to dance class..... looking forward podcast
21:44:39 James Sigler: Tech should help use reach a virtual 1 teacher:1 student
21:44:43 Jenna McWilliams: and we're considering adding a fourth challenge to the three that are currently in the paper (participation gap, transparency problem, ethics challenge)
21:45:13 klmccomas: @jenna - what would be the new challenge
21:45:29 Jenna McWilliams: the fourth would be about evaluation: how to assess work that integrates the principles of participatory culture
21:45:38 Jenna McWilliams: so that one would be more about educators than about learners
21:46:01 James Sigler: The institution of school resist and has been left behind by the 21st century
21:46:31 Bron: @ James - is it schools or institutions?
21:47:25 Bron: Schools and teachers are keen to engage - but are so restrained by policy, firewalls and support
21:47:52 James Sigler: exactly
21:47:59 Bron: Our firewalls and security here in Aus are getting tighter not more open
21:48:07 Jenna McWilliams: what's the testing situation in australia?
21:48:14 James Sigler: here in the US, too
21:48:43 Bron: No - Google, no Flickr, No Youtube, No Twitter, No Facebook etc etc
21:49:14 Jenna McWilliams: what about cellphones, ipods, etc?
21:49:27 Kevin Hodgson: It's unfortunate that a "grade" is expected for everything we do. I wonder if we keep pushing our sense of audience beyond the teacher's desk, if this perception would change?
21:49:28 Bron: and most web sites have to be white listed before the kids can go there
21:49:59 James Sigler: US federal e-Rate law requires filtering.  Intended for inappropiate sites, but
21:50:10 Bron: cellphones - off or not at school and ipods not - they become another items to protect
21:50:13 James Sigler: filtering has gone way beyond that
21:50:15 Jenna McWilliams: to me, one problem is the question of how to scaffold the experience of participation
21:50:58 Jenna McWilliams: if you send kids to pre-approved sites, then it can feel like the Internet has become a textbook (with chapters, prepicked material, etc.). but obiously, and esp. with young kids, you can't just toss them out there and let them fend for themselves.
21:51:08 Jenna McWilliams: it would be a more "authentic" experience, but clearly not the solution, right?
21:51:29 James Sigler: Schools are viewing new technologies are a distraction for students, because they are not engaging students pedigogically with them
21:51:43 Jenna McWilliams: james, what do you teach again?
21:51:57 James Sigler: 3rd grade
21:52:04 Bron: @jenna - yes - it is like here is the challenge and here is the place to find the answer - the digital worksheet
21:52:25 Jenna McWilliams: @james what kinds of technologies do you use with your third graders?
21:52:40 James Sigler: I get to teach all subjects and incorporate many topics into reading and writing
21:53:05 Jenna McWilliams: ooh! one cool thing henry always says is "we don't want to look over their shoulders, but we DO want to watch their backs."
21:53:25 Bron: wise words
21:53:31 James Sigler: Class blogmeister, Wikispaces, voicethread, Skype as a class, podcasting
21:53:35 Bron: Yes we do have a duty of care but...
21:54:15 Bron: the walled garden is not all we need to offer
21:54:22 gail desler: @James Have you seen in2books? It's part of ePals.com
21:54:40 Kevin Hodgson: Susan Biggs: kids need to be part of how we development assessment of work -- yes
21:54:44 Jenna McWilliams: it's such a hard issue--how to scaffold learning in an environment that isnt' geared toward a young learner
21:54:45 Bron: LUV Voicethrea
21:54:52 Bron: Voicethread
21:54:53 rimer: right - we have to help them create a map that can get them out of the garden but not lost ... @Bron
21:54:55 James Sigler: @gail saw it, but haven't looked into it yet
21:55:04 Jenna McWilliams: it's kind of like...dare i say...bringing Playboy into the classroom but asking kids to read the articles?
21:55:14 Bron: with you on that @rimer
21:55:44 gail desler: @James - Looks like a worthy adventure - with a research base starting to happen
21:55:58 James Sigler: @Jenna we need to teach students how to behave ethically, when they go home to an unfiltered internet.
21:56:14 Kevin Hodgson: James -- excellent point
21:56:24 Bron: the critical literacies
21:57:05 James Sigler: We need to teach them how to navigate online the right way, rather than just what not to do.
21:57:26 Jenna McWilliams: yes, but what's hard is that we know there's not necessarily a RIGHT way to navigate the net
21:57:41 Jenna McWilliams: but that the key is to work with the norms of a certain space and decide how and whether to engage
21:57:48 Kevin Hodgson: But how many teachers are comfortable in that role, I wonder? So many are wary of anything online, it seems to me
21:58:06 Susan: And does behavior in one participatory culture transfer to others?
21:58:30 James Sigler: @Jenna I contend it would be better to talk in general about inappropriate magazines and how to avoid them. 
21:58:31 Bron: Yes in Quest Atlantis (MUVE) we teach kids rules to be safe - eventhough we are a global walled garden. Because we cannot afford to have them lern a relaxed set of practices that will make them unsafe in other virtual worlds
21:58:56 Jenna McWilliams: @james perhaps, but i wonder what percentage of the online world is TRULY inappropriate for all purposes
21:59:03 Jenna McWilliams: i mean, even Playboy has some good articles, right?
21:59:29 Susan: I'm excited to talk more about this article locally at our writing project site.
22:00:17 James Sigler: @Kevin
22:00:22 SusanEttenheim: wow do we all need those skills as teachers!
22:00:23 Kevin Hodgson: Yes?
22:00:43 Jenna McWilliams: skill #12: visualization‚Äîthe ability to interpret and create visual representations for the purposes of expressing ideas, finding   patterns, and identifying trends.
22:00:52 Jenna McWilliams: that's a working def.
22:00:55 James Sigler: @Kevin teachers need to model online behavior by trying them out first.
22:01:48 Kevin Hodgson: James -- I believe that and we need to make opportunities and space for them to "play" with the tools and then figure out the right integration into curriculum and classroom. But time to play ... can be a hard sell for administrators
22:02:01 rimer: It goes back to the idea that good teaching about any literacy may be the same good teaching we need with new media
22:02:11 James Sigler: @Kevin try on online identities in a virtual world is your Web 3.0 you asked about earlier
22:02:27 Kevin Hodgson: :)
22:02:34 Bron: Do we need to appropriate all the tools of popular media? I am thinking along he lines of the Creepy Treehouse.
22:02:35 Jenna McWilliams: we've been talking a lot about whether the vocab in the white paper is useful for kids to adopt--like do they need to know and understand, say, the NML term "simulation" as part of learning how to engage in the practice? or are these terms more useful for teachers and less for students?
22:03:08 Kevin Hodgson: Terms in the paper are more for teachers. Is there a kid-friendly version out?
22:03:28 SusanEttenheim: hi dfdfd welcome! where and what do you teach?
22:03:34 Jenna McWilliams: we're trying to adapt the material for an online api for kids--that's why we're struggling with this question
22:03:49 James Sigler: @Kevin The play can be simple low-level academic tasks.  ie nouns and verbs, math facts, etc
22:03:56 Kevin Hodgson: @bron -- creepy treehouse?
22:04:47 Jenna McWilliams: ooh! great point that the skills are not new--they've just become more important for kids because theyr'e engaging in activities they didn't used to have a chance to engage in.
22:05:03 Kevin Hodgson: @James really? Even as a writing teacher, working with parts of speech is rarely play for me. I want to create, compose and then explore my writing self from many angles. Conventions of English rarely come into my mind
22:05:06 Bron: Creepy treehouse http://flexknowlogy.learningfield.org/2008/04/09/defining-creepy-tree-ho...
22:05:14 James Sigler: @Jenna they know "The Sims", "Sim City", "Sim Farm"
22:05:40 Kevin Hodgson: @bron Thanks. That is creepy.
22:05:58 Jenna McWilliams: eiew creepy treehouse!
22:06:44 Katie SLP: Hello.
22:06:50 klmccomas: hi katie
22:06:56 James Sigler: @Kevin If you want to make it higher level, discussing literature, use of figurative language, word play, poetry
22:07:03 klmccomas: hey everyone, katie is my daughter!
22:07:18 Kevin Hodgson: Hi Katie, Karen's daughter!
22:07:26 Bron: I se the idea of appropriating all new media tools used by kids into education as verging at times on being a creepy treehouse.
22:07:29 James Sigler: Hi Katie!
22:07:37 gail desler: Hello Katie - Met you at Tech Matters a few years back
22:07:40 Katie SLP: Hi everyone! Just thought I would stop by momentarily.
22:07:53 Katie SLP: Yes, Gail.  That's right.
22:08:29 Jenna McWilliams: our teachers' guide uses melville as an example of a guy who was engaging in appropriation in the 1850s, way before anybody thought to call it that.
22:08:54 klmccomas: katie, there is a broadcast - don't know if you can hear it but it's podcast later
22:09:40 Katie SLP: How would I start it, the audio anyway?
22:09:51 gail desler: Night all
22:10:01 Bron: I found the chat was illuminating and valuable - audio was very soft and I tuned out really
22:10:20 SusanEttenheim: katie you can see the participate live button and there is a volume icon there
22:10:23 Kevin Hodgson: It's been nice chatting with you all -- much food for thought (even some popcorn)
22:10:28 Bron: @Katie - I had to refresh several times
22:10:34 James Sigler: Loved the chat tonight.  Will have to listen to podcast later
22:10:41 fhaas: I have to confess I shared the article with my principal, librarian, director, and I will be sharing it with a fair amount more.
22:10:50 Bron: Why do the people discussing live not ever look at the chat?
22:10:55 Jenna McWilliams: oh my gosh, you guys are so smart
22:11:02 Jenna McWilliams: *fawn* *swoon*
22:11:10 Bron: Why do they not pick up on issues in the chat
22:11:11 rimer: Hey Bron ... I was ... It's me Beth
22:11:18 Kevin Hodgson: I do, Bron, but it is difficult to move back and forth for many people
22:11:21 Bron: Oh OK
22:11:28 klmccomas: I'm watching the chat and talking
22:11:33 Bron: it just seemed like two parralel experiences
22:11:35 James Sigler: @Bron very hard to read and talk at same time,
22:11:38 klmccomas: but probably not doing either well
22:11:57 Katie SLP: Well I just wanted to stop by and check it out!  I'll have to come back when I have more time.  Take care, everyone!
22:11:59 Kevin Hodgson: Now if we were all 15 years old, it would be a breeze
22:12:04 fhaas: Bron- Some of it is pure speed. the chat is happening at a pretty rapid rate and not always sequential. Plus, the talk can move pretty fast too.
22:12:12 rimer: we're back to the problemwith multi-tasking
22:12:13 Bron: need a moderator to pull questions over to the live discussion
22:12:24 James Sigler: Good idea
22:12:28 klmccomas: LOL!
22:12:48 Susan: That sometimes happens more often.  There were a lot of folks on panel tonite
22:12:50 SusanEttenheim: thanks for coming everyone!!
22:12:55 alexr: Thanks, everyone.
22:13:07 Kevin Hodgson: Adios -- good night -- peace out (Thanks to Paul, Susan E and Christina)
22:13:10 Bron: This was great
22:13:10 fhaas: This was a lot of fun. Thanks for the invite.
22:13:18 Bron: thanks everyone
22:13:26 James Sigler: Much fun, thanks, nite all
22:13:33 Bron: juicy issues
22:13:34 rimer: Thanks   - thanks
22:13:36 alicebarr: Thanks all!
22:14:19 Susan: goodnight
22:14:22 SusanEttenheim: night all!
22:14:23 Bron: Nice to meet everyone - hope to join regularly
22:14:32 alicebarr: Thanks!'
22:14:33 Bron: thx
22:21:59 Jenna McWilliams: LEEROY JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!