Chat Log for TTT#95 - 03.12.08
http://edtechtalk.com/node/3082
20:49:39 paulallison: Hi all
20:50:48 Michael.Dodes: Hi Paul, and Susan
20:52:13 SusanEttenheim: hi
20:52:54 DBragg: hi
20:53:43 PeggyG: Hi all-has streaming started yet?
20:56:40 paulallison: We'll get started in a couple of minutes.
20:57:34 cnansen: Paul, is this a text only chat?
20:57:58 SusanEttenheim: no audio just hasn't started yet
20:58:00 paulallison: We'll have sound soon.
20:59:07 PeggyG: Still getting used to the time change :-) AZ doesn't use daylight savings time so I'm always confused--thank goodness for World Clock on my menu bar
20:59:10 llirvin: Hello
21:00:07 llirvin: Hi Susan--how do I listen to the webcast at the same time.
21:01:59 PeggyG: @llirvin-click on one of the audio links on the login page
21:02:33 adinasullivan: I can hear :)
21:02:42 bmuench: sound - check!
21:02:53 SusanEttenheim: thanks everyone
21:02:59 lee baber: hello bmuench
21:03:02 SusanEttenheim: hi michael
21:03:15 Michael.Dodes: Hi Susan
21:03:19 Bud: Hi, room!
21:03:20 jepcke: Hey Matt!
21:03:20 PeggyG: I usually click on the first icon for sound under EdTechTalk-A and it opens in iTunes- sound is coming in now :-)
21:03:21 Michael.Dodes: what's the topic tonight?
21:03:25 adinasullivan: Evening all
21:03:25 lee baber: welcome Michael
21:03:26 SusanEttenheim: welcome everyone
21:03:30 SusanEttenheim: filtering
21:03:33 lee baber: topic.
21:03:44 SusanEttenheim: please introduce yourself- where and what do you teach?
21:03:46 Michael.Dodes: great, are our comments going to be filtered?
21:04:10 jepcke: The delay always goofs me up
21:04:11 lee baber: hehe @michael
21:04:15 villagegreen: I'm from Denver, district tech integration
21:04:15 bmuench: brenda muench - music teacher/tech specialist gilman IL
21:04:20 adinasullivan: I teach elementary - San Marcos, CA (near San Diego)
21:04:22 Michael.Dodes: Michael Dodes - NYC - Bronx High School
21:04:22 lee baber: hello doug
21:04:24 James.Sigler: I teach 3rd grade in Carl Junction, MO,
21:04:28 Bud: Hi, Matt!
21:04:29 lee baber: welcome villagegreen
21:04:39 jepcke: Hi Judi Epcke, District tech Integration (K-8) Northbrook, IL
21:04:46 llirvin: Lennie Irvin--San Antonio College SA TX. I teach freshman writing
21:04:50 falconphysics: I teach Science in Michigan (mostly physics)
21:04:52 SusanEttenheim: thanks for joining us tonight everyone!
21:05:02 PaulB: 8th Grade Soc Stud in CT
21:05:02 PeggyG: I'm a retired elementary principal and university instructor in Phx. AZ
21:05:04 cnansen: One of the "bad guys" - technology director for our district
21:05:09 SusanEttenheim: what are your experiences with filtering?
21:05:21 ds: hi Lee and all -- Doug Symington EdTech Gadfly, based on Vancouver Island
21:05:29 Michael.Dodes: Just glad Symantec is dead
21:05:41 jepcke: Had some filtering experiences where EVERYTHING was blocked
21:05:44 lee baber: What a wonderful group tonight. Thanks all for coming!
21:05:46 SusanEttenheim: yeah! doug is here! - enjoyed your show by podcasat this week!
21:05:58 jepcke: had no idea about how education uses some of these site
21:06:07 jepcke: I mean wikis were blocked
21:06:13 jepcke: couldn't even create them
21:06:19 PeggyG: Awesome panel to share their wisdom tonight--filtering is always on the minds of all of us
21:06:23 jepcke: google images blocked
21:06:26 jepcke: Hey Matt
21:06:27 Michael.Dodes: Can specific sites be blocked? How's this category system work?
21:06:28 SusanEttenheim: jepcke was that always the case?
21:06:31 villagegreen: our filter isn't too oppresive, however most teachers never go beyond the block page to request something be opened
21:06:31 Michael.Dodes: er unblocked
21:06:45 Bud: @villagegreen: That's the big wrinkle, isn't it?
21:06:45 DBragg: I'm a Family & Consumer Science Teacher (Home Ec) in Allentown, PA
21:06:46 PeggyG: "hypothetical"--good thinking :-)
21:06:48 matt montagne: hey judi
21:06:49 jepcke: @susan yep, for this particular district
21:06:50 ds: thx Susan
21:07:21 jepcke: Rather than 'talking' about educational uses, they simply said, "It's blocked, sorry"
21:07:22 adinasullivan: @villagegreen Same here, most don't ask for unblocking
21:07:26 bmuench: i can get things unblocked for me on my teacher login pretty easily but for the kids login is a much harder thing
21:07:51 ds: re filters-- I think logs and "responsible use" is a better approach
21:07:53 jepcke: I work somewhere else now ;)
21:07:55 lee baber: hello Durff
21:08:02 lee baber: Welcome Conrad
21:08:05 ds: prohibition doesn't work IMHO
21:08:05 Durff: hi lee
21:08:10 conrad: hello
21:08:16 villagegreen: we are only just now working on a teacher override for youtube
21:08:27 villagegreen: do others have teacher overrides?
21:08:34 cnansen: Yes
21:08:38 jepcke: @ds I agree
21:08:42 jeffmason: educational support staff
21:08:44 James.Sigler: my Feedjit it blocked (like clustermaps with google maps)
21:08:44 Durff: i tell kids to watch at home
21:08:47 Bud: @villagegreen: We have a two-tiered access system - I'd like to see an override
21:09:05 Durff: if i want to use in school i convert it and post it elsewhere
21:09:09 jepcke: @villagegreen We have few sites that are blocked for kids
21:09:13 lee baber: Hello CKendall
21:09:16 lee baber: welcome
21:09:28 jepcke: can't think of a site that is blocked for teachers
21:09:29 ckendall: hi all
21:09:44 Durff: hi kendall
21:09:46 jepcke: we prefer to educate the kids on proper use
21:09:56 jepcke: and consequences of misuse
21:09:57 James.Sigler: We have to have a form with the justification signed by the principal to get a site unblocked.
21:10:03 Michael.Dodes: DDR was evil
21:10:06 ds: my experience has been with Websense in corp environment--allowed for visits to "questionable" sites, but logged visits
21:10:08 SusanEttenheim: hi tonitones welcome
21:10:13 bmuench: @jepcke have you any issues?
21:10:20 Bud: @james.sigler: Do you have a copy of that form online somewhere?
21:10:23 tonitones: Hi thanks
21:10:29 cnansen: My teachers just have to send me an e-mail request
21:10:48 villagegreen: hah! just figured out how to launch the audio stream - i feel so behind sometimes
21:10:58 tonitones: I can't see or hear anything...
21:11:00 James.Sigler: @bud yes it is on our a network drive
21:11:01 SusanEttenheim: great villagegreen
21:11:06 lee baber: Thanks for coming tonight Jason and tonitones
21:11:08 jepcke: we block youtube, no particular issue other than it is distracting for the kids, but teachers can access on their laptops
21:11:16 Bud: @james.sigler: I meant do you have a copy you can share here?
21:11:16 JasonR: yo yo
21:11:18 SusanEttenheim: click on the listen icon and choose edtechtalk a
21:11:20 SusanEttenheim: to listen
21:12:02 cnansen: There are a lot of innapropriate videos in YouTube
21:12:05 jepcke: we 'join forces' with our middle school kids when they get around a filter (how did you do that?) and they always show us
21:12:12 Michael.Dodes: How does the new one address proxies? My students still find them pretty easily, I have software that lets me block them.
21:12:34 SusanEttenheim: hi ben welcome
21:12:37 lee baber: Hello Ben!
21:12:39 jepcke: There are a million ways around youtube blocks
21:12:40 SusanEttenheim: hi sheila welcome
21:12:44 cnansen: Also hate sites
21:12:48 jepcke: ask the kids, they'll show you
21:12:55 SusanEttenheim: how jepcke?
21:12:56 sheila: Hi all!
21:13:12 James.Sigler: @ bud I have a word document of the form, but I'm not sure how to share that with you
21:13:15 SusanEttenheim: welcome bcrosby
21:13:16 jepcke: they access it from another country, like youtube.uk or something like that
21:13:18 Ben: hi folks
21:13:21 bcrosby: Hi all!
21:13:24 matt montagne: youtube is such an awesome tool...I couldn't imagine having that blocked
21:13:35 llirvin: I agree with you Matt
21:13:35 lee baber: Hi Brian
21:13:41 bmuench: @jepcke that's a new one to me LOL
21:13:43 jepcke: our teachers can use it on their laptops
21:13:50 bcrosby: Hi Lee!
21:13:50 SusanEttenheim: matt how does blocking work at your school?
21:13:55 ds: Hey Ben and bcrosby, and hbutcher welcome
21:14:01 tonitones: Yay I can hear!
21:14:06 Bud: @james.sigler: [email protected]
21:14:09 jepcke: @bmuench it was new to me too, the kids taught me
21:14:10 SusanEttenheim: great tonitonges
21:14:11 mclewis: Hello everyone
21:14:14 Bud: Hi, Brian, Holli!
21:14:23 tonitones: In NZ it is done by individual school
21:14:26 jepcke: hi mclewis
21:14:28 cnansen: What filter are you using in New York?
21:14:29 bcrosby: Hey Bud!
21:14:34 Michael.Dodes: Websense
21:14:39 matt montagne: @James...thanks for helping out with the Earth Day 2008 Webcast planning last week
21:14:41 Bud: Saw you in NEA Today, Brian.
21:14:42 SusanEttenheim: hi lorna welcome
21:14:43 Bud: cool
21:14:45 mclewis: Filters are something that can be very annoying
21:14:49 Ben: youtube blocked in our district... barracuda filter is used in our district
21:14:50 lorna: hello all
21:14:51 lee baber: Hello Lorna..thanks for coming
21:14:55 villagegreen: we switched from Websense to 8e6
21:14:58 Michael.Dodes: now anyway, we used to use Symatec dynamic document review filtering
21:15:00 ds: Hi Lorna
21:15:01 matt montagne: we use "Websense"
21:15:02 mclewis: You tube opened for teacher
21:15:05 SusanEttenheim: hi mary welcome
21:15:17 mary: hi
21:15:24 Bud: @villagegreen: You're overriding with 8e6? Or will be?
21:15:26 bcrosby: @Bud ... yes ... have gotten lots of email from that article!
21:15:29 jepcke: My former district blocked all google apps and google images/search
21:15:34 matt montagne: we can pretty much get anything unblocked if we want...
21:15:37 tonitones: Gvt requires some sort of blocking and recommend a blocker but school can unblock
21:15:45 DBragg: YouTube is open for teachers in my district
21:15:52 jepcke: That's why it's my former district ;)
21:15:57 llirvin: to jepcke--Why would they block google? What's the rationale?
21:15:59 villagegreen: @Bud just testing an 8e6 override for youtube
21:16:03 jepcke: well oneof the reasons
21:16:12 mclewis: What my division is blocking are things such as Ning, Twitter, Tumblr. My IT supervisor has decided they are a waste of time.
21:16:16 Michael.Dodes: Can a site be adjusted in category for just one school? Or when you change a category for a site, does it extend across the city
21:16:19 ds: great topic and conversation -- have to run. Hope to be back b4 end o' show. Thanks and hope to cya again soon
21:16:20 tonitones: Biggest prob I have with You Tube is comments
21:16:30 SusanEttenheim: wow mclewis - a waste of time!
21:16:38 JasonR: heh, "not so fun but education we will allow..." :)
21:16:48 llirvin: Perhaps a waste of his time (he means)
21:17:11 mclewis: He says he sees no educational value
21:17:14 cnansen: Using 8e6 we can open one site in a category, but that is open for everyone who uses 8e6
21:17:48 jeffmason: so you could take gmail out of email category and allow it ?
21:18:04 cnansen: Is New York using 8e6?
21:18:11 SusanEttenheim: websense in nyc
21:18:28 villagegreen: with 8e6 we can open up access to a specific site for a specific IP address or range for a specific period of time
21:18:45 bcrosby: I'm glad that it seems like a lot of the "blocking" of web sites seems to be some of a "pushback" on IT lately and they are having to give reasons for blocking sites instead of teachers ALWAYS having to give reasons to unblock ... pendulum seems to be swinging I guess.
21:18:46 SusanEttenheim: who has a question?
21:18:49 Ben: seems like problematic logic to me... shifting sites... but then proxy servers change everything again
21:18:50 cnansen: With 8e6 we have no issues with filtering
21:19:23 maggle: putting on the blinders doesn't allow any opportunity to teach social responsiblity
21:19:23 Bud: Brian - I think the squeaky wheels are getting the grease - be they pro blocking or anti-blocking.
21:19:25 Michael.Dodes: Some students don't have a lot of self control in a lab, you can monitor all you want but sometimes when kids are all doing their own thing, in some communities the kids just can't seem to help themselves.
21:19:25 mclewis: Okay, I agree with the supervision needs. A good instructor will always supervise.
21:19:54 lee baber: This is true Michael.
21:19:54 SusanEttenheim: welcome katinsl
21:19:58 Michael.Dodes: I know prior to websense, my students were addicted to myspace...didn't matter how much trouble they got in, or how much I monitored, they still went
21:20:01 Bud: @michael.dodes: Sure - but if those kids weer stabbing themselves in the arm repeatedly, we'd find a way to make sure they had supervision.
21:20:04 jepcke: What does the law say re: districts requirements for filtering?
21:20:05 SusanEttenheim: please jump in and introduce yourself
21:20:07 Bud: *were*
21:20:13 lee baber: I have 26 computers and the kids are constantly searching and exploring
21:20:21 Ben: aren't filters just for teachers and admin's peace of mind? proxy sites crop up quickly and these allow students to get to facebook and other sites.
21:20:26 James.Sigler: @Matt Glad I could help with Earth Day 2008. How is it going?
21:20:27 Michael.Dodes: CIPA requires public libraries and schools to have a filter on every computer in a building in order to receive e-rate funding
21:20:31 bcrosby: I'm told by the head of IT in my district to keep quiet on what I am able to access ... "If IT knew that they might block it!"
21:20:38 Durff: when there are 20-36 students i don't think it is realistic to ask teachers to police what students are doing
21:20:39 mclewis: I have a question: We can set parameters which would only allow sites to be blocked unless we log on as teachers. Why then are sites continued to be blocked?
21:20:40 Michael.Dodes: every computer
21:20:52 tonitones: I have a prob with IT techs deciding what is of 'educational value' with no educational background
21:20:56 SusanEttenheim: hi durff!
21:20:59 lee baber: @ bcrosby.. me too
21:20:59 jepcke: @michael, but does it say WHAT is to be filtered, at a minimum?
21:21:01 Bud: @Brian - are there educators making those decisions in your district? Or tech staff who aren't educators?
21:21:10 jepcke: @tonitones YES!!
21:21:14 Ben: tonitones - agreed!
21:21:17 derrallg: hi Susan
21:21:21 tonitones: @bcrosby - same as me
21:21:24 jeffmason: ? So, if a teacher requests a site to be opened, if it can be opened, can the tech support person refuse this request?
21:21:25 adinasullivan: @tonitones I agree with you!
21:21:28 Michael.Dodes: It doesn't address it very specifically, it just requires some form of filtering software with very vague guidelines because the software evolves so much
21:21:32 Ben: have we talked about proxies yet here?
21:21:35 SusanEttenheim: welcome derrallg!
21:21:46 tonitones: At my school yes they can refuse
21:21:52 SusanEttenheim: what about proxies ben?
21:21:52 tonitones: AND DO
21:22:09 mclewis: We also have a program on the master computer in the lab that allows a teacher to view all student labe computers. We can then monitor all 25 computers.
21:22:09 bcrosby: @Bud ... its been an IT decision mainly because SO FEW teachers have even understood it was an issue that no one gave them feedback. That seems to be changing somewhat.
21:22:11 jeffmason: @tonitones on what basis?
21:22:16 Durff: @crosby yup! and if they knew how the kids got through those filters in most schools.....
21:22:21 jepcke: As said before, these network managers are nice people, but often don't have the educational background to understand the value of wikis, for example and they have more say than teachers do
21:22:26 derrallg: I don't deal with proxies anymore at my school but we used too
21:22:35 lee baber: Hi Derrall
21:22:38 Ben: How proxies fundamentally change this discussion. Students know how to get around filters through proxies. What does this mean to the filtering initiatives within districts?
21:22:40 derrallg: hi Lee
21:22:56 tonitones: - just decide that educational value is not there for a certain site so refuse to open it...
21:23:05 villagegreen: we block 2nd life
21:23:11 mclewis: @jpecke Don't you feel that the instruction needs to drive the technology and not the other way around?
21:23:12 Durff: and what about when learners bring their own internet connections....oh yeah they do - called cell phones
21:23:14 jepcke: @ben We partner with the kids to ask them how they are getting around the filters and they tell us
21:23:19 Bud: What's really creeping me out lately is the number of educators requesting sites to be blocked for student/classroom management issues.
21:23:23 Ben: Like digital rights management proxies just keep the honest people honest.
21:23:25 tonitones: one of my podcast sites got blocked cause so many kids were accessing it it 'must have been bad'
21:23:30 jeffmason: @tonitones techies might not be educators. educational value?
21:23:40 Michael.Dodes: Teen second life?
21:23:43 bcrosby: Some teachers AND SCHOOLS here are buying cell cards to get around the filters ... mainly for teachers to access youtube et al for lessons ... that has been a wake-up call for IT too!
21:23:51 jepcke: @mclewis that's my point, an why I left my last district
21:24:01 tonitones: @jeffmason I don't know what you mean
21:24:10 Durff: my it blocked one of my assignment sites
21:24:14 mclewis: @tonitones That's incredible! They closed it cuz it was access!
21:24:17 Michael.Dodes: close the ports? lol
21:24:21 derrallg: @Bud bad experiences or attempts at proactive management?
21:24:23 jeffmason: How can a techie determine educatinal value?
21:24:28 villagegreen: one problem we have is the ability to embed someone else's content in their own page
21:24:40 Bud: @bcrosby: Yeah - we have a city-wide wi-fi network. We're already in the "danger zone."
21:24:41 villagegreen: hard to know how deep to block
21:24:44 Bud: @derralg: Both.
21:24:48 Durff: @jeffmason only if they have an ed degree
21:24:54 tonitones: @jeffmason EXACTLY but they are - in a very uninformed sense
21:25:04 jeffmason: @durff my point!
21:25:17 bcrosby: Skype paid for me to have one for a year and I have used it several times to get around blocked sites and to increase access for my students who are on a very slow wireless connection.
21:25:24 Durff: 2jeffmason then we agree
21:25:38 hbuchter: Bud, that is why you have to be an advocate for less filters. Too many people consider the filter to be the ultimate babysitter.
21:25:44 bcrosby: Paid for a wireless card I should have said.
21:25:45 jeffmason: @durff yes
21:25:51 derrallg: I'm wondering how much I should fight to have tools unblocked even if I don't care about it?
21:26:05 PeggyG: I'd be interested in hearing how they make decisions about blocking/not blocking blogs, wikis?
21:26:05 Michael.Dodes: Is websense based on a white list?
21:26:17 Michael.Dodes: so all new stuff is blocked until white listed?
21:26:19 Bud: @hbuchter: Yep - that's the need for knowing the filter people and the filters and the whys of them. We don't treat the Internet like intellectual property.
21:26:31 tonitones: Disappointing when teachable moments are ruined because of blocking - unblocked a week later - moment is gone
21:26:34 Michael.Dodes: or in this case, categorized
21:26:36 Durff: @derrall load it on a flashdrive
21:26:47 mclewis: Last year I was using Babel Fish to help a teacher speak to a child that only spoke Spanish. It was blocked in the middle of us using it. When I emailed about it I was told to "say please cuz they have the power."
21:26:50 bcrosby: It puts pressure on me to REALLY keep track of those computers accessing through my new wireless modem that shares my card.
21:26:54 jeffmason: Get to know your tech person and let them know you. It helps in many requests.
21:26:57 tonitones: Wow minutes!
21:27:09 derrallg: @mclewis that's obnoxious
21:27:12 Durff: @derrall the kids do that now
21:27:24 Ben: @mclewis Babel fish works as an excellent proxy :)
21:27:34 Durff: shhh
21:27:53 mclewis: obnixious is a great description
21:27:57 James.Sigler: Our district blocks social networking sites and open source download sites
21:27:59 derrallg: @durff I'm tired of corrupt files on flash drives
21:28:10 Michael.Dodes: why open source download sites?
21:28:15 Michael.Dodes: sourceforge I'm assuming?
21:28:24 mclewis: I don't understand all the proxy stuff Sorry.
21:28:26 Durff: @derrall some come loaded with programs
21:28:54 James.Sigler: @Michael all freeware downloading site are blocked. Yes Sourceforge
21:29:16 Durff: Audacity is blocked?
21:29:18 Michael.Dodes: wow that would include tucows too....that's bad
21:29:30 James.Sigler: My assumption is to avoid viruses, not for because of content
21:29:43 villagegreen: hey, erin
21:29:52 emdisi: heya :)
21:30:03 Michael.Dodes: The easier way is really to restrict who can install programs on a computer I'd think
21:30:03 Durff: hi emdidi
21:30:07 James.Sigler: @Durff Come to think of it, Audacity is not blocked.
21:30:11 Michael.Dodes: rather than block all downloads
21:30:29 jeffmason: I can rip a site from the net at home, put it on a flash drive, show it in my class. Who is the final arbiter of filtering? Why filter?
21:30:30 villagegreen: @emdisi - Bud is talking on the audio stream
21:30:31 Durff: @James Audacity is Sourcforge isn't it
21:30:33 SusanEttenheim: hi mct welcome
21:30:54 PeggyG: Who is making the point about the filter as classroom management tool? Excellent point!
21:30:56 Durff: could we chain them please?
21:31:06 emdisi: how do I listen?
21:31:18 lee baber: ETTA
21:31:19 James.Sigler: @Michael I agree. Our lab computers have deep freeze so it always boot the same image
21:31:21 mclewis: So how can we convince our IT people to consider the educational value of a site?
21:31:23 SusanEttenheim: hi emdisi - just click on listen
21:31:26 SusanEttenheim: edtechtalk a
21:31:28 lee baber: upper right hand side
21:31:33 villagegreen: @emdisi - look to the links on the right under audio streem
21:31:45 jeffmason: yeah bud1
21:31:46 villagegreen: *stream
21:31:55 Michael.Dodes: I use Insight classroom management software, some use Vision, it helps
21:32:02 llirvin: I like his point about how over the top the restrictions are compared to the f2f classroom.
21:32:04 jeffmason: yeah bud!!
21:32:07 Michael.Dodes: faronics and genevalogic are the producers of those
21:32:12 emdisi: nice! I'm listening!
21:32:17 Michael.Dodes: you can turn it on/off in a second
21:32:32 James.Sigler: @Durff The Audacity.com site is separate from sourceforge, but I think the download files are still on sourceforge.
21:32:39 Durff: @Michael not according to our IT
21:33:03 jeffmason: it sounds like most of wht is done is opening. closing is by list subscription.
21:33:15 tonitones: kids learn by play - including on the web - that's how I learn too
21:33:15 mary: the school proxy seems like a lot of work for the teacher to set up her white listed sites
21:33:17 Bud: Hey, Joanne!
21:33:21 Michael.Dodes: so categories are just basically whitelists, and schools subscribe to specific white lists
21:33:38 lee baber: welcome ben
21:33:41 Bud: @michael - actually, the categories are usually blacklists.
21:33:43 Ben P: hi
21:33:46 Bud: but otherwise, you're right.
21:33:54 mct: sorry, came in late... but are most of these schools 1:1 schools?
21:33:55 SusanEttenheim: hi wolf - welcome
21:34:03 SusanEttenheim: no mct - are you?
21:34:04 lee baber: no mct
21:34:05 Bud: @mct: We're nowhere close to 1:1 in my district.
21:34:15 villagegreen: not 1 to 1 in denver
21:34:15 SusanEttenheim: where are you and what do you teach?
21:34:17 lee baber: Nor are we
21:34:18 James.Sigler: I wish
21:34:20 jeffmason: try to ban a book on the basis of a "keyword"
21:34:21 adinasullivan: Definitely not 1:1 here
21:34:25 jmeester: Hi Bud!
21:34:26 DBragg: my district isn't any where near a 1:1
21:34:27 lee baber: we are in virginia
21:34:34 Bud: nice to see you here, joanne.
21:34:50 llirvin: to Jeff They have done that to Huck Finn
21:34:52 DBragg: PA here
21:34:52 mclewis: @lee baber Where in VA; that's where I am
21:35:00 mct: I'm lucky... no tech director at the moment- I go on the server and unblock a site if I want it or another teacher wants it
21:35:02 bmuench: we're still fighting for a mobile laptop lab!
21:35:07 lee baber: rockingham county
21:35:10 lee baber: western..
21:35:15 lee baber: near harrisonburg
21:35:21 jeffmason: @llirvin but look what it takes!
21:35:24 bcrosby: If more is open that is scary for some teachers because it means thay have to do a good job of monitoring ... which is somewhat a being lazy issue and part what if I get busy helping someone and a student goes somewhere or does something "bad".
21:35:31 mclewis: @lee baber Ya'll did a great job at VSTE!
21:35:35 hbuchter: Hi Joanne!
21:35:39 lee baber: mclewise..and you?
21:35:41 lee baber: OH cool
21:35:41 mct: How do you teach kids to make good choices, if they can't make choices?
21:35:44 lee baber: Thanks
21:35:52 mclewis: @lee baber Amherst
21:36:00 lee baber: I really enjoyed that topic
21:36:01 Michael.Dodes: When you work with kids working with computers, you can be as vigilant as possible but for a lot of kids even supervision alone just isn't enough.
21:36:04 lee baber: OK..
21:36:06 Durff: i envy you being able to open/unblock your own
21:36:07 SusanEttenheim: what do you think? do you agree? do you think people just need to ask more?
21:36:07 llirvin: @mct Good point.
21:36:09 lee baber: we should stay in touch
21:36:10 Michael.Dodes: you can spend a lot of time supervising instead of teaching
21:36:16 jmeester: Hey Holli, I'm trying to catch up on the conversaiton...
21:36:25 Michael.Dodes: and still not get good results
21:36:27 Durff: @Michael i disagree
21:36:30 lee baber: welcome jmeester!
21:36:43 Durff: oh wait i read that backwards
21:36:50 Durff: more coffee!
21:36:55 tonitones: Just started using mobiles in classroom for accessing internet - just realised no filters
21:37:04 bcrosby: Wish I could stay ... gotta go! Thanks all! Good conversation!
21:37:14 Durff: bye brian
21:37:16 James.Sigler: Teaching is better than supervising, but some teachers don't even want to monitor.
21:37:18 Michael.Dodes: S'ok Durff
21:37:22 lee baber: bye brian
21:37:25 lee baber: be in touch
21:37:26 mct: I can see the kids' screens- if they are goofing off- I warn them, if they do it again - a note home... if it continues, a violation of AUP- cut them off and have a long talk
21:37:29 Durff: ignore me Michale
21:37:36 bcrosby: BYE -
21:37:38 Durff: most people do
21:37:48 mclewis: We too have a teacher network and student network. Filters still on
21:37:58 SusanEttenheim: do you all feel that you can unblock when you need to?
21:37:59 mary: hi Durff
21:38:04 Durff: hi mary
21:38:05 James.Sigler: @mct I agree screen placement in the room helps a lot with classroom management
21:38:07 tonitones: It's about accountability and management
21:38:13 mct: yes- I can unblock
21:38:23 Michael.Dodes: my classroom is a very long room, I can't possibly see all the screens at once, a lot of rooms are like that
21:38:24 mclewis: @susanEttenheim not in my division
21:38:31 adinasullivan: requests for anything take a long time
21:38:33 tonitones: By the time the unblock comes it's to late
21:38:50 SusanEttenheim: so what would help?
21:39:05 DBragg: My students have to be close together because there is only electricity on one side of the room
21:39:07 SusanEttenheim: in the places where you don't feel you can talk to someone and solve the blocks?
21:39:10 lee baber: How do you go about changing a block in your district?
21:39:22 mclewis: @ susanettenheim The IT people need to have some sort of educational background
21:39:26 adinasullivan: IT have the time to get to it and an understanding of hwo it can impact instruction
21:39:29 James.Sigler: @mclewis tiered filtering would be nice. I wish we had that.
21:39:30 Durff: i am not allowed lee
21:39:35 cnansen: Raises hand to speak
21:39:40 tonitones: Exactly
21:39:41 jmeester: We have a student monitoring system in the lbrary and one license. I don't monitor it on a daily basis, instead my library assistant does. Also the district filters...
21:39:45 mary: thanks for the invite and the interesting conversation
21:39:53 mary: I have to go
21:39:57 mary: bye
21:39:57 Bud: Does everyone in this chat know the name of the person in charge of your filtering? OR the policy in place that controls its use?
21:40:00 Durff: bye mary
21:40:01 mclewis: @james.sigler It still hasn't helped us as teachers
21:40:05 lee baber: bye mary
21:40:06 SusanEttenheim: what's up cnansen?
21:40:13 Ben: there are some key assumptions here: 1. that the filters are as powerful as the guests say they are. 2. the perspective here is teacher use, students find ways around this all the time (what are these implications)
21:40:15 tonitones: @bud yes
21:40:26 lee baber: I see durff.. they don't even want to hear your input
21:40:36 DBragg: i know the name of the person who can open a site
21:40:40 Durff: nope - i'm stupid
21:40:56 Durff: i didn't go to college or grad school...
21:40:59 cnansen: @susanettenheim just want to speak about our filter - don't want to butt in
21:41:00 lee baber: according to them of course..durff
21:41:03 jmeester: I know a few names Bud... but will leave them out. Students can find ways around filters and I suggest different keywords for a go around.
21:41:13 mj: SynchronEyes classroom management -- not to Block, but to guide. District blocks still there, but can manage a class from one screen.
21:41:14 Durff: i must know nothing about education
21:41:15 Bud: @joanne: I do, too.
21:41:16 lee baber: so old school
21:41:21 matt montagne: @ben...gr8 pt...everyone know of the facebook app that can be installed to get around facebook being blocked? Even I know that one!
21:41:26 DBragg: I love Wes Fryers observation that he had less blocked in China than the typical American school
21:41:32 derrallg: @Bud I found out the name other day because of filtering Scribd
21:41:45 Bud: @ben - yeah - I think filters are great for teaching students and teachers about subversive surfing.
21:41:47 matt montagne: voicethread rocks!!!!!!!
21:41:50 Durff: how difficult could this blocking be?after all look at we all can do
21:41:57 Michael.Dodes: Insight, Vision, Synchroneyes, they can all be valuable tools, if you're directing students to specific sites to expose them to them, you don't need them to have the ability to search everywhere.
21:41:59 matt montagne: ed.Voicethread rocks!!!!
21:42:00 Ben P: thanks
21:42:08 Bud: @derrallg: Was he/she a human being? Reasonable person?
21:42:10 Ben: @matt that work around is just the tip of the iceberg.
21:42:25 Durff: this chat is moving too fast for me!
21:42:36 mj: Joanne, Holli, Bud..hi from myra
21:42:40 derrallg: @matt you have 3 fewer ! for the ed version?
21:42:45 DBragg: @durff...more coffee?
21:42:46 villagegreen: filters have always been a little like bike locks - just effective enough to keep honest people honest
21:42:47 Bud: Hi, myra!
21:42:56 mclewis: All archived sites and social networking sites are blocked in our division as adult sites
21:42:59 Durff: @DBragg may not help
21:43:02 Ben: @villagegreen completely agree!
21:43:05 jmeester: Less blocked in China? That's different from what I"VE H
21:43:11 James.Sigler: There needs to be balance between filters, monitoring, and teaching digitial citizenship. Where is the balance?
21:43:13 SusanEttenheim: hi cheryl - what's going on in maine blocking?
21:43:15 matt montagne: @derrallg...LOL...took me a minute on that one...
21:43:29 jmeester: hi Myra!
21:43:34 tonitones: They just then blame the technology
21:43:45 cherylsweb20: I'm from Connecticut, but we have a wide range of blocking in the area.
21:43:51 mj: wondering who was "helping out" on unblocking some useful sites...thx Bud
21:44:03 derrallg: @bud hasn't gotten back to me
21:44:05 jeffmason: our district blocks the category "online media storage". think about all that category blocks
21:44:17 Bud: @derrallg: Sorry to hear that.
21:44:24 Durff: the kids don't think that way Ben
21:44:28 cherylsweb20: At our district we have very tight filtering.
21:44:29 SusanEttenheim: oops wrong cheryl - sorry! - but glad to hear about ct too!
21:44:32 Bud: So who wants to build the "how do filters work?" voicethread?
21:44:36 cherylsweb20: Sorry
21:44:43 Durff: @Bud you do
21:44:55 Bud: Can someone get that going?
21:45:05 Durff: @Bud you can
21:45:10 tonitones: Each school seems to reinvent the wheel...
21:45:13 villagegreen: lee lefever should just do a 'filters in plain english' and save us all the trouble!
21:45:17 Bud: got my hands full at the momeny, durff.
21:45:21 jmeester: @Bud - how would one address the "how do filters work?" voicethread - I can with help!
21:45:23 Bud: *moment*
21:45:28 DBragg: @villagegreen lol
21:45:33 jeffmason: voicethread is blocked
21:45:38 mclewis: We cannot get on EdTech at school. You are classified as social networking
21:45:40 Durff: well then i nominate derrall
21:45:42 Bud: @joanne: Just get it started. Anyone willing to help her?
21:45:48 Bud: derrall?
21:45:48 Durff: do i hear a second?
21:45:51 mj: maybe could help, joanne
21:45:56 SusanEttenheim: well jeffmason here's your chance to fix it!
21:46:11 tonitones: Some schools block because of download caps - some sites too heavy
21:46:16 derrallg: @durff no no, report cards, moving etc. etc.
21:46:25 Durff: chicken
21:46:26 mj: mj=myra
21:46:33 emdisi: @villagegreen lol
21:46:35 Durff: hi myra
21:46:52 mj: hi durff
21:46:53 jmeester: I must admit that I haven't researched how filters work. Myra could proably help!
21:46:54 jeffmason: @susan you're right
21:47:05 Michael.Dodes: Different filters work different ways
21:47:11 villagegreen: great conversation, must cut out early
21:47:23 Michael.Dodes: there's site rating, listing, keyword filtering...
21:47:24 SusanEttenheim: night villagegreen thanks for joining us
21:47:29 emdisi: @villagegreen bye Matthew
21:47:49 mj: @joanne - there are some district issues w/ Voicethread (thin clients)
21:47:51 villagegreen: @emdisi let me know if I miss something important
21:48:02 emdisi: @villagegreen will do
21:48:32 jmeester: I must admit that one selfish reason for resesarching how filters work is to find out how to bypass them, which I haven't bothered much with to this point
21:48:36 emdisi: We block streaming video for that reason too
21:48:37 James.Sigler: How do I justify unblocking twitter?
21:48:56 mj: @joanne -- not blocked, just functionality issues.
21:49:01 emdisi: now however, we are opening YouTube with a password workaround in our district :)
21:49:08 maggle: we block live chat on teacher computers but not on IT computers
21:49:08 tonitones: @james good luck!!!
21:49:22 mclewis: we block music streaming. We allow United Streaming, You Tube, Teacher Tube, News, etc
21:49:24 Bud: @james.sigler: Well, what viable work purpose does it serve for you?
21:49:27 cherylsweb20: Twitter can be used for collaboraive purposes, like finding out about this.
21:49:47 jmeester: @mj I'm currently not using thin client to access voicethread. What issues are you having?
21:49:57 mj: @joanne, bud, holli -- would LOVE to have less blocks, more local control.
21:50:21 mclewis: Twitter is blocked in my division. I can receive and send tweets by OutTwit. I cannot go to the web site during the day.
21:50:22 jmeester: @mclewis, I'm hoping that Teacher Tube expands quickly, and I assume that it will.
21:50:40 tonitones: thanks for letting my join... nice to chat... good to hear same probs as in New Zealand - we are not alone!!!
21:50:42 James.Sigler: I haven't found an educational use for Twitter for with my 3rd graders yet.
21:50:47 mj: @joanne -- synching. Non-citrix is the only way to go...for now?
21:50:49 Ben: what about liability? has this been addressed?
21:51:01 tonitones: signing out now :)
21:51:03 Michael.Dodes: Look at poor Julie Amero...
21:51:09 PeggyG: VT problems could be browser related but that's easy to test by tring a different browser. If it doesn't load on any browser, it's probably bandwidth.
21:51:22 Ben P: right
21:51:22 Durff: we had problems with streaming videos & pop up blockers - 7th grader figured it out ! i was so proud of him!!
21:51:26 mclewis: How do they get around the fed regulations if absolutely no filtering.
21:51:30 jmeester: Great to hear Bud and Holli, I knew you guys were supporting less blocking.
21:51:33 James.Sigler: I still struggle with how to use Twitter well
21:51:36 derrallg: @matt you're on the bleeding edge
21:51:49 Durff: poor matt
21:52:01 Durff: lol
21:52:13 mclewis: I thought it was a federal mandate to filter and block p--n
21:52:26 James.Sigler: I agree, home internet doesn't have filters.
21:52:31 SusanEttenheim: some are private schools
21:52:36 Durff: even the word is blocked some places
21:52:47 cnansen: @SusanEttenheim Got Skype installed on this computer
21:52:53 hbuchter: jmeester-blocking is censorship and is not necessary to the degree it happens in this district.
21:52:54 Michael.Dodes: the best thing we can do is educate students
21:52:59 jeffmason: I'm getting visions of shareski. when I hear minimal filtering.
21:53:04 jmeester: @mj, I almost never log in to Citrix. I can't do my attendance through Citrix, so there's not much point. I do log on to Citrix to use Dreamweaver, but plan to change using Dreamweaver for the webites this summer.
21:53:17 Durff: @Michael constantly
21:53:37 cherylsweb20: @jmeester, what will you use?
21:53:42 hbuchter: jmeester-I am logged into citrix right now and am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the audio.
21:53:42 jeffmason: CIPA and erate $$
21:53:44 Michael.Dodes: We have legislators that don't understand the internet at all, but they're not going to say "let's not have filters for intellectual freedom if we're worried they could be exposed to p--n"
21:53:46 mj: @joanne Dreamweaver to ???
21:53:59 JasonR: seems like there are parallels with book banning
21:54:12 jmeester: @ Holli, Ahhh Censorship and filtering, do you want to introduce legislation?
21:54:16 James.Sigler: Are we helping students at home without a filter, by having filters at schools
21:54:22 cherylsweb20: Yes, but book banning is different than colllection development
21:54:47 matt montagne: blocking adult content actually makes me feel a little better too...
21:54:56 mclewis: @james.sigler good point
21:55:01 Ben: filters are a PR function with school communities (parents, trustees, superintendants)
21:55:03 jmeester: @mj, I use Dreamweaver on Citrix to update the school websites. Is that your question?
21:55:35 Durff: by filtering, we're teaching kids to use proxies and preparing them for their 21st century futures - could that be bad?
21:55:45 James.Sigler: Is there a difference between filtering out p--n and hate site and filtering social networks and music download site?
21:55:45 mj: @joanne R u changing from Drmwvr to something else for your site?
21:55:56 Durff: yes
21:56:16 Michael.Dodes: social networking particularly myspace has had bad press with cyber predators...of course that doesn't stop them from using them at home either.
21:56:24 jmeester: @ James.Sigler, I assume some parents filter to some extent at home. But, in answer to your question, in general we're not comprehensively teaching kids how to access appropriate information for their study and skill needs.
21:56:42 Durff: my IT thinks that about games and meebo
21:56:46 jeffmason: if we want curriculum materials in our classroom, we make request of a curriculum person not tech support
21:57:07 Michael.Dodes: the government's iSafe curriculum is targeted at this
21:57:08 Bud: And, no, I don't think we're preparing kids for life without the filter by using the filter.
21:57:17 matt montagne: @James.Sigler that is an excellent point...that is the weakness of filtering...if you block for po#n and hate, then a case to block social networks has to be made
21:57:27 mj: @jmeester -- Info lit education -- how to evaluate all info?
21:57:52 Michael.Dodes: we do have a whole run of lesson plans and presentations already prepared http://www.isafe.org/
21:57:53 jmeester: @ mj, I'm looking at all possibilities (including Wordpress) and would love to hear about your experience and what you might suggest....
21:57:57 Durff: @Bud but we are teaching them to get around the filter because they will
21:58:11 Bud: @durff: Yep.
21:58:11 jeffmason: clap,clap,clap
21:58:15 Michael.Dodes: all grades
21:58:29 hbuchter: jmeester- I agree. We need to teach kids how to evaluate and access technology. We are not doing our job to prepare them for the outside world and higher education if we filter their world to the level we tend to do.
21:58:56 DBragg: great point
21:59:01 James.Sigler: @Micheal we need more sites like isafe and http://netsmartzkids.org
21:59:05 hbuchter: Filtering is serving the purpose of challenging them to beat it.
21:59:11 Michael.Dodes: agreed
21:59:16 jmeester: @mj, I do have a new online moodle class that I'll share as soon as I get it going. It covers information literacy and I'll originally use it for library aides, but plan to expand.
21:59:40 Durff: @jmeester cool!
21:59:54 mclewis: @lee baber Wouldn't it be great if VA were using a state filter like ND?
21:59:56 PeggyG: What's the link to learn more about 86?
21:59:57 mj: @joanne -- saw the shadow of it on Moodle -- I'd love to see it
22:00:10 jmeester: @durff, thanks for the cool prompt.
22:00:33 lee baber: you bet mclewis
22:00:49 Michael.Dodes: good social networking and bad social networking categories?
22:00:50 matt montagne: @mjeester...we're looking at a blog platform for our students right now as well. Looking at EduBlogs Campus
22:01:12 jmeester: @ mj, I'll send it to you tomorrow. Thanks for your interest.
22:01:14 matt montagne: schools need to do a better job of educating the community about why sites should be open and available
22:01:16 DBragg: time for bed here...nite all
22:01:29 Michael.Dodes: wow 10 already, too fast
22:01:31 Durff: is ning blocked at your school, which schoo, which state?
22:01:32 James.Sigler: Missouri is currently debating a bill to make teacher contact with former students on social networks illegal.
22:01:32 lee baber: we use first class as well
22:01:34 jeffmason: It seems so simple.
22:01:41 mclewis: @dbragg good nite!
22:01:51 cherylsweb20: Most students are not being solicited using social networking, most are being sought out at chat rooms, and through IM.
22:01:52 lee baber: it has instant messaging
22:02:05 Durff: eek! 10:02 here!
22:02:14 Durff: gotta go - bye all
22:02:15 jmeester: @ matt montagne, EduBlogs is a quickly everchanging platform, they're constantly coming up with new ways to help teachers and students. I'm having a hard time keeping up with them.
22:02:18 lee baber: right.. dont be afraid to ask
22:02:46 mclewis: I hate to end this but I have to check out. Can we get a transcript of this conversation tomorrow?
22:02:53 lee baber: yes
22:03:07 SusanEttenheim: mclewis - look at edtechtalk.com
22:03:10 mclewis: Do we just come to this site?
22:03:10 lee baber: well, we will be podcasting it on http://edtechtalk.com in a few days
22:03:15 SusanEttenheim: and teacersteachingteachers.org
22:03:20 lee baber: and some of the chat links as well
22:03:21 jmeester: @ Drurff, try asking your district to unblock the ning; ours agreed to do so.
22:03:21 mclewis: Thanks!
22:03:32 lee baber: Stay in touch
22:03:49 cnansen: 8e6 info at http://tinyurl.com/328cjb - my google docs file
22:04:04 SusanEttenheim: great - thanks cnansen
22:05:13 jmeester: Glad I logged in, thanks for your collective input!
22:05:13 lee baber: Yes thank you cnansen
22:05:22 PeggyG: @cnansen--Thanks for the URL~
22:05:25 lee baber: glad to have you tonight jmeester
22:05:27 Michael.Dodes: This was a great chat, very informative and involved
22:05:37 Michael.Dodes: Thanks those who came on
22:05:41 James.Sigler: Why should a techie decide our curriculum tools.
22:05:54 Bud: Joanne, I'm so glad you made it.
22:06:01 jmeester: You too lee baber!
22:06:02 lee baber: someone has to be held accountable...
22:06:18 lee baber: legally..and that does come down to the bottom line
22:06:39 jmeester: Thanks Bud, I'm trying to figure how to officially log out. Do I just close the link?
22:06:47 mj: @jmeester -- look forward to talking
22:06:56 Bud: @joanne: Yep. Just close it. talk to y'all soon.
22:07:00 jmeester: Never mind, I just found it! Thanks Bud.
22:07:06 Ben: what about inviting a lawyer on next time for this type of talk?
22:07:06 mct: why is it different for a teacher to make an unacceptable curriculumm choice- not using tech vs using tech- trust the teachers!
22:07:11 PeggyG: Craig's process sounds so reasonable and the key is that it doesn't take a long time to get a decision with lots of levels of bureaucracy!
22:07:31 mj: Thanks to all!
22:07:54 lee baber: good idea Ben
22:08:01 James.Sigler: Great show! Great chat!
22:08:16 Bud: @peggy: We can turn around a committee decision in a very short timw, also.
22:08:19 Bud: *time*
22:08:28 Bud: it's a good setup. when folks are brave.
22:08:36 Ben: great idea! students on the committee! (and parents too)
22:08:44 hbuchter: Bud Do we involve kids?
22:08:56 Michael.Dodes: Where can we get a list of what categories our school subscribes to?
22:08:59 PeggyG: @Bud-yes, I heard that point earlier and I think you have an awesome, collaborative, teacher-friendly, accounable process! :-)
22:09:01 derrallg: Great show thanks
22:09:09 Bud: @holli - not right now.
22:09:11 Bud: Alas.
22:09:27 Bud: But in some ways, that might actually make the response time worse.
22:09:32 PeggyG: Too funny! Links :-)
22:09:33 lee baber: nite derrall
22:09:35 Bud: worth thinking about.
22:09:36 jeffmason: meow
22:09:58 James.Sigler: kid and parent invovlement...great idea!
22:10:05 JasonR: night
22:10:25 jeffmason: so many lynx, so few recipes
22:10:39 James.Sigler: :)
22:10:44 hbuchter: I will be requesting my space be unblocked for staff.
22:10:45 lee baber: Jeff.. your are very clever.. :)
22:11:02 jeffmason: :)
22:12:15 Bud: @hbuchter: Yep.
22:12:19 Bud: good on you.
22:12:59 mct: Great talk- thanks
22:13:06 lee baber: Thanks everyone
22:13:08 lee baber: for your input
22:13:19 PeggyG: Thanks for a great conversation!
22:13:21 lee baber: Thanks bud...cnansen
22:13:30 James.Sigler: Super conversation!
22:13:34 jeffmason: thanks to all
22:13:35 matt montagne: thanks all!
22:13:37 lee baber: olqierd
22:13:39 matt montagne: have a good nite!
22:13:42 lee baber: matt..
22:13:42 James.Sigler: Nite all
22:13:45 SusanEttenheim: night all
22:13:46 lee baber: and Ben
22:13:51 lee baber: Thanks susan
22:13:59 lee baber: ps...susan
22:14:02 lee baber: dr. tomorrow
22:14:04 lee baber: :)
22:14:08 Bud: I learned a lot - thanks, y'all!
22:14:08 lee baber: hope for results
22:14:21 lee baber: Thanks Bud..we are so glad to have you
22:14:22 PeggyG: I was so interested in hearing the conversation that I didn't get to read much of the chat. Can't wait to see it posted. :-) So glad you do that!!
22:14:23 lee baber: tonight
22:14:37 PeggyG: Nite all
22:14:45 lee baber: nite Peggy
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