Chat Log for TTT #190 - Listening to Student Gamers (and Suzie Boss) - 03.03.10
20:41:10 mschoenberger109: Just getting ready for the show and checking this out for the first time.
20:41:55 mschoenberger109: just learned not to refresh!
20:47:38 Paul Allison: Hello Ms Schoenberger, Welcome.
20:47:48 Paul Allison: we'll be starting soon, we hope.
20:47:57 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/
20:49:02 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/422924216/calling-all-gamers-this-wee...
20:50:55 mschoenberger109: Hello. This is my first time here. Sounds interesting.
20:51:01 Paul Allison: cool.
20:51:07 Paul Allison: Where do you teach?
20:51:29 mschoenberger109: In Medford, NJ--you are in NY?
20:51:55 Paul Allison: Yes, I'm in Flushing by day, Washington Heights by evening.
20:52:20 Paul Allison: Nice to have a moment befor the craziness...
20:52:35 Paul Allison: What levels do you teach? subjects?
20:53:10 mschoenberger109: I teach tech to grades K-5 and I teach I.M.P.A.C.T--our Gifted and Talented kids to Grades 4 and 5.
20:53:13 mschoenberger109: You?
20:53:24 Paul Allison: 10th and 12th English
20:53:31 mschoenberger109: God bless you!
20:54:05 Paul Allison: Many of us who will be gathering any minute now... (nervously I type) ... have students work on http://youthvoices.net
20:56:58 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone welcome!
20:57:23 mschoenberger109: hi-susan
21:00:21 suzieboss: Hi all
21:01:35 suzieboss: Chris, where are you located?
21:01:44 chris sloan: salt lake city utah
21:03:16 Paul Allison: We will start in just a minute.
21:03:47 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone can you hear us?
21:04:30 mschoenberger109: no, i can't still saying off air.
21:05:20 SusanEttenheim: mschoenberger please click on edtechtalk A
21:05:28 mschoenberger109: will do
21:05:29 SusanEttenheim: hi jake garcia welcome
21:05:34 SusanEttenheim: can anyone hear us?
21:05:43 SusanEttenheim: andrea - can you hear?
21:06:07 Jakegarcia: Thank you!
21:06:33 SusanEttenheim: welcome back andrea!
21:06:38 AndreaZellner: Sorry about that!
21:07:16 AndreaZellner: That's a great book!
21:07:17 SusanEttenheim: can you hear ok?
21:07:20 AndreaZellner: Yep.
21:07:25 SusanEttenheim: great thanks
21:07:49 Jakegarcia: am I making too much noise/too loud?
21:07:54 SusanEttenheim: not at all
21:07:59 Jakegarcia: wonderful, thanks
21:16:01 chris sloan: http://youthvoices.net/node/33286 Here's a post that Jake wrote comparing the game Ayiti and Harvest Moon
21:16:11 SusanEttenheim: hi dbragg welcome!
21:16:18 DBragg: Hi Susan
21:16:27 SusanEttenheim: we have a few students tonight talking about gaming in school
21:16:31 DBragg: and everyone else
21:16:38 SusanEttenheim: of course!
21:16:45 chris sloan: hi donna
21:17:06 mschoenberger109: true
21:17:10 Paul Allison: http://ludoliteracy.com/
21:19:25 SusanEttenheim: hi carol welcome!
21:19:39 carolteach4: Hi, Susan. Thanks - just responded to your email reply.
21:20:06 SusanEttenheim: we're talking about gaming tonigh
21:20:15 SusanEttenheim: are you doing any gaming at school?
21:21:01 carolteach4: I was lurking and had to come into the chat because these young men are fascinating and articulate, and I am so challenged when it comes to games. We don't do really much at school at all - at least teacher sanctioned. 7th graders will be starting a unit on mythology soon, however.
21:21:48 Paul Allison: http://costoflife.ning.com/
21:21:52 carolteach4: Is this mythology game age-appropriate for middle schoolers - 12 going on 13 year olds? Or is this more for high school.
21:22:04 Jakegarcia: Not at all
21:22:17 Jakegarcia: Blood and Sex is everywhere
21:22:18 Jakegarcia: I'm sorry.
21:22:31 carolteach4: @Jake - Your are saying it is NOT appropriate then.
21:22:38 Jakegarcia: Correct
21:23:25 carolteach4: Thanks. That's too bad. It would be nice if you guys wrote a game that was age appropriate and incorporating some of the good aspects of the game you mentioned.
21:23:26 SusanEttenheim: there must be some age appropriate mythology games..
21:23:37 SusanEttenheim: how true!
21:23:46 Paul Allison: http://youthvoices.net/keywords/2games
21:23:50 SusanEttenheim: hi joquetta welcome!
21:23:58 SusanEttenheim: have you joined us before?
21:24:00 joquetta johnson: hello
21:24:04 joquetta johnson: no
21:24:14 SusanEttenheim: welcome are you teacher or student?
21:24:22 SusanEttenheim: or both :)
21:24:32 joquetta johnson: teacher/library media specialist
21:24:45 SusanEttenheim: welcome! where and what do you teach?
21:24:58 Jakegarcia: Yes, carol, there are some games out there that actually have that
21:25:00 joquetta johnson: Baltimore MD
21:25:14 Jakegarcia: Unfortunately, I have no titles off of the top of my head.
21:25:21 SusanEttenheim: welcome and what ages attend your school?
21:25:21 Jakegarcia: I can definitely do some research for you.
21:25:45 carolteach4: @jake - that would be great; Susan has my contact information.
21:26:06 joquetta johnson: grades 9-12
21:26:23 mschoenberger109: how do you get some of these games justified to the parents?
21:26:36 suzieboss: Great description of how to build social capital
21:26:48 Jakegarcia: Well, we are high school students, so by now our parents have subjected to our so called "violent" games haha
21:27:21 Jakegarcia: However, Harvest Moon is an all age appropriate game
21:27:23 carolteach4: @Jake; I have a 27 year old son still at home, and he games all the time.
21:27:38 Jakegarcia: ahaha Good for him, I guess?
21:27:48 carolteach4: I guess? too
21:28:30 Jakegarcia: @Carol and whom it may concern
21:29:02 Jakegarcia: I can't believe I forgot about this, but Age of Mythology combines not only Mythological Concepts but also building a successful society a la Sim City.
21:29:30 Paul Allison: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010949.html
21:29:41 Paul Allison: http://www.urgentevoke.com/
21:29:43 carolteach4: @Jake - is Age of Mythology very costly? I would probably have to get a site license to have a class of kids playing.
21:30:20 Jakegarcia: @Carol - Not too much I believe, on the contrary, to my knowledge, it's somewhat old.
21:30:38 Jakegarcia: @Carol- nothing that a new Mac or Windows laptop could handle though.
21:31:08 Jakegarcia: Couldn't*
21:31:46 carolteach4: @Jake - Thanks. I'll look into it.
21:31:53 SusanEttenheim: hi fred welcome!
21:32:01 SusanEttenheim: we are talking about gaming tonight
21:32:09 Fred Haas: Hello, sorry I am late
21:32:30 SusanEttenheim: glad you're here!
21:32:46 SusanEttenheim: http://www.urgentevoke.com
21:34:26 joquetta johnson: This is a game we use in our state for teaching Pre-Alegrba http://labyrinth.thinkport.org/www/
21:35:14 SusanEttenheim: what kind of game is it?
21:36:24 mschoenberger109: @joquetta-sounds very interesting! I will pass this along to our middle school teachers
21:36:40 joquetta johnson: awesome
21:37:07 suzieboss: Chris--your classroom sounds like a wonderful place!
21:37:32 carolteach4: I learn from my students every single day.
21:38:07 suzieboss: From McGonigal's site, gaming research: http://www.avantgame.com/writings.htm
21:38:17 carolteach4: @Chris Sloan - Can you drop in a link to your blog or website
21:39:11 joquetta johnson: These are great resources.
21:40:43 carolteach4: It's interesting how industry is with it using games for training, and most educational institutions are still so far behind.
21:41:00 SusanEttenheim: so true!
21:41:07 Jakegarcia: I'll get to talking about that Wired article, where Pro Athletes use Madden Football Games to train.
21:42:08 chris sloan: @Carol, here's my teaching website https://sites.google.com/site/ccsloan/
21:42:18 mschoenberger109: @carolteach4true. But I think with my level--elementary--we haveto worry about parents and parents think that gaming is an extra and valid use of class time.
21:42:31 SusanEttenheim: 10 minute warning so jump in there!
21:42:49 carolteach4: @Chris - thanks
21:44:59 carolteach4: @msschoenberger - Oh, I agree, but this is the language of today's kids, and kids can learn a lot of math, science, grammar, etc. if the learning games are well designed and engaging. Of course, kids love the games where they connect with others, and that scared me because I've seen some of the very inappropriate comments in multi-player games.
21:45:22 carolteach4: I guess we really have to start with digital ethics from kindegarden on.
21:45:33 suzieboss: An interesting insight from McGonigal: game designers want players to succeed; games reward you for practicing/increasing your skills/etc.
21:48:09 mschoenberger109: @carolteach4--absolutely. I think we are dealing with young kids parents don't mind them playing the games when they are clearing educational FIRST and fun second. We have started teaching this year ethics beginning in kindergarten for the first time.
21:49:03 carolteach4: Teachers have to find the time to play and learn the games themselves before they feel comfortable using them with kids; that is one of the big issues; teachers are so busy teaching, preparing, correcting, etc. that there is not a lot of time to do so.
21:49:42 chris sloan: I played Ayiti and I'm pretty busy, not a gamer. it was worth it
21:50:06 mschoenberger109: i agree. there doesn't seem to be much time for anything anymore!
21:50:07 carolteach4: @mschoenberger- in Digital Nation from PBS, it showed how digital ethics is being taught directly - top down- to little kids in China - interesting
21:50:25 mschoenberger109: I'll have to check it out.
21:50:37 suzieboss: These sound like great opportunities for engaged discussions--using games to set the context.
21:50:54 carolteach4: @Chris - hopefully I'll get time to try Ayiti; I am not much of a gamer - really challenged.
21:51:48 mschoenberger109: I'm in the same boat, carolteach4
21:52:05 carolteach4: @mschoenberger -it's available for streaming from the PBS website - aired Feb. 2, 2010. It is absolutely well worth watching. There is also a section where people have uploaded video about their digital use.
21:52:27 mschoenberger109: @carolteach4--awesome, thanks:)
21:53:56 carolteach4: Both my sons have engaged in face-to-face games with their buddies (male and female) where they sit around and have a story teller guiding the game, and they all participate in their various personas - not digital at all, but they love it.
21:54:22 mschoenberger109: We use games in our curriculum, but most online games. I think the most comparable to these games that you are discussing is "Oregon Trail"--where it is a "choose your own adventure" type game about westward expansion--used for our 3rd graders
21:55:28 Jakegarcia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Meat_Boy
21:55:31 carolteach4: Kids are using Scratch to make games - free from MIT - not terribly sophisticated, but they have fun.
21:56:05 Jakegarcia: Yes, I know it's very very bizarre
21:56:15 mschoenberger109: My kids love Scratch!
21:56:33 Jakegarcia: but it's a great example of how Artists and Developers unite to make games
21:56:53 carolteach4: Yes
21:57:48 carolteach4: It's interesting to listen to George Lucas on broadening the definition of literacy
21:58:05 Jakegarcia: @carol - that intrigues me; do you have a link?
21:58:12 chris sloan: where can I find the Lucas link?
21:58:50 carolteach4: OH - I just watched it last week - if you seach on Edutopia, there should be videos from Lucas.
21:59:16 carolteach4: I'll try to remember where I saw it. I
22:00:05 carolteach4: @Matt and Jake - yes, my son has been telling me that the games he plays are like literature for years.
22:00:35 carolteach4: In fact, he used to write stories as did some of his fellow players that enhanced the story in the game.
22:00:59 carolteach4: What are we talking about again?
22:01:06 carolteach4: Which game?
22:01:18 chris sloan: assassin's creed
22:01:41 carolteach4: Do you have a link? Our 8th graders will be studying Renaissance period soon.
22:03:07 Fred Haas: It's a fairly mature game. Here is the manufacturer's link http://assassinscreed.uk.ubi.com/assassins-creed-2/#/trailer/
22:03:49 carolteach4: So - that is where Jake and Matt have to get a career going - make some age appropriate games leaving out the blood and gore!
22:03:59 Jakegarcia: Yes that'd be nice
22:04:09 suzieboss: Thanks to students here tonight--you guys have great insights
22:04:37 Fred Haas: Sadly, have to run. I look forward to hearing the entire show in the podcast.
22:05:01 carolteach4: @Fred - just clicked on the link, and the age to view the preview - 18-
22:05:30 carolteach4: Of course, that's not going to stop any one younger from looking at the preview.
22:06:02 suzieboss: Great question for students to think about: your ability as consumers to shape games
22:06:06 carolteach4: I am such an old foggy. I hate the fact that blood and gore is an attractive factor! I DO NOT want to see blood and gore.
22:06:15 mschoenberger109: me too!
22:06:34 carolteach4: Shame on those developers!!!!!!!!!!
22:07:29 mschoenberger109: it seems as if these games are marketing to the violence first with a little bit of educational value.
22:08:23 carolteach4: I just complimented Jake and Matt - said how articulate they are; they've helped me understand so much from their point of view. The comment got lost.
22:08:45 chris sloan: It is a joy to be in the classroom with them!
22:10:34 carolteach4: I hope they will go into education.
22:10:34 carolteach4: Another comment lost!
22:10:34 mschoenberger109: could you list those age appropriate games again?
22:10:34 Jakegarcia: @Carol & Everyone: Thank you so much for having me! Great to talk with everyone and being a guest on your show.
22:10:34 Jakegarcia: @Everyone - Thank you so much for having me on the show. It was a pleasure to be a guest and I'm glad you invited me.