: hi stephen
: hey brad
: hope you have a coffee ready
: Hi guys - have to work today so unfortunately can't hang around to help as a guide
: I really would have liked to listen in live to Stephen
: thanks for checking in anyway
: hey jason
: Hey Stephen, wy wife and I watched your Open University session live and were blown away by it - particularly my wife who had not heard you talk before
: hi michael
: ok have a good show guys i look forward to the podacst audio
: Hello Michael
: start time is in about 14 minutes
: Delighted you're here
: we never start at the hour
: bad luck
: Glad to be here
: hey ds
: and ageing_geek
: Hi everybody
: Hey DS
: hey nlowell
: hi everyone
: Hey Susan
: hey susan
: wanted to be here in case help was needed but then have to go finish making and serving dinner - got a little distracted before audio editing! - so will be in and out a bit later
: OK, thanks SE
: hey b!!!!
: compliments on the skypecast description for tonigh
: and cheryl
: hi barbara in ohio!
: Hi Barb long time no see
: I am just off an 800 mile drive from (you'll appreciate this Cheryl) Wells maine and am somewhat brain dead
: Hi John
: hi john
: Hey Cheryl
: Barb how was your visit in Wells.
: Jeff asked me to send this to the chat room: http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/05/11/antisocial_netw.html
: Dave how are you?
: am here for any help..
: all is well...
: standing by :)
: barb - why wells, maine?
: how long have you been in maine/
: my heart is starting to pound..
: news goodie goodie
: I wonder if everyone in the skypecast knows about the chat room?
: how much lag time is there between the audio and us?
: 20 to 30 seconds typically re lag
: Go Hurricanes
: hi lee
: wow this is really the place to be on a sunday night!
: music does not work on Mac
: There are 3 versions of Bill Number H.R.5319 for the 109th Congress (DOPA)... http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.5319:
: there's a great article on myspace in the ala journal this month
: hi mmmay
: you both sound great!
: Hello :)
: skypecastlink please??
: Thanks for the 3 version link...
: thanks Jason
: have you all seen this?
: thanks jason
: hi jenn
: Hello Jonathan
: Hellow all
: BB patent in plain English... http://mfeldstein.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/the_blackboard_patent_c...
: hello everyone from Vancouver, Canada
: Hello FrancesL
: hi John
: greetings from Montréal Canada! I am eebee in the skypecast
: welcome from the "lower mainland" Frances, I'm in Victoria ;)
: Hi dave
: hey all
: very good group tonight
: Deleting Our Personal Access act :< (props to JL)
: Hi Cathy
: hi cathy
: good one jason
: Hi Susan
: So private schools will continue to have access to online predators? *)
: That Funding is something our district can not do without!
: you get what you pay for jason!
: Thank you for extending an invite to Blackboard to participate in this evening's EdTech program. While we appreciate your effort to include Blackboard, at this time we are unable to participate. Please find a few comments we hope you will provide for your audience during the program from Blackboard's president and CEO Michael Chasen: "I believe there has been a great deal of confusion about the scope of the patent and our intentions behind the legal action.
: Following is a brief history around our patent. After the release of our first products - back in 1998, a core group of people at Blackboard looked at the CMS technology available at the time and identified improvements that would enable the CMS to function as a true enterprise application for educational institutions. We focused our resources on developing solutions with the student-centric functionality to allow the Blackboard CMS to serve the increasingly complex needs of the industry. Though we were still in our early stages as a small player in the software industry, we recognized the importance of protecting our innovations in our products. As a result, seven years ago, we filed for patent protection on these developments in various countries around the world.
: Please know that the patent covers only specific features and functionality contained in the Blackboard system that were developed by the Blackboard team. We certainly did not invent e-learning or course management systems, and I am personally embarrassed that this is what some people have stated that Blackboard is claiming. Over the last decade and longer, fantastic advancements have been made throughout the e-learning industry by a diverse and passionate community of individuals and institutions and Blackboard is privileged to have been a contributor. We hope that such innovations will continue. We are asking Desire2Learn for a reasonable royalty for their use of our intellectual property, which is in line and consistent with industry practices -- similar to the way in which Blackboard pays royalties to numerous companies for use of ideas they have developed and patented."
: is everyone listening to the audio?
: is anyone having trouble hearing?
: I am hearing just fine.
: perfect here
: No trouble with the Skypecast on my end
: JL, can you continue to transcribe everything Dave says. :)
: listening in chat - should I be in skypecast (where)?
: explain Desire to Learn
: Harold. feel free to join the Skypecast
: D2L is a canadian software company
: If you join the Skypecast, you will muted in the beginning. Opportunities for commenting will follow a little later in the show.
: Susan, I am having some audio drag..on and off
: The audio isn't great today.
: If you're having problems with Channel 1 - try Channel 3
: What's the link to the wikipedia article?
: links are on the left side menu of EdTechTalk
: I am listening via the skypecast. The audio is more clear now.
: ok...I see the links, they are perfect..
: Oh no
: who is speaking on air now?
: It is as bad as we thought....frantic
: Michael Feldstein
: that is Michael Feldstein
: i.e. Apple Records vs. Apple Computers
: is the pencil patented???
: if it isn't lets patent it soon.
: hey Cheryl
: Has the
: how's the weather in Maine?
: :o I got booted off in Firefox, just getting back.
: The weather is actually very cool, no humidity.
: Flock is really cool
: I've not tried flockyet
: love the blogging features
: thanks, I'll look at it.
: you will love it
: integrated with Flickr
: Yes, it can not be a patent on a "blanket" idea which obliterates others progression in an industry
: has the "education community" ever gotten formal opinion from patent lawyers?
: Good thought John
: Is there a lobby for this "eduaction community?"
: you're in it
: Michael said that was one step to take..checking with lawyers
: john that's a great question
: I want to keep my Moodle...
: Fee Free!
: Patent Grant Review Process http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/strat21/action/sr2.htm
: Sorry if this was already asked, but where does NEA and other education unions stand?
: they prbly do not have a clue
: too cutting edge for NEA
: I will ask
: thanks for asking.
: groups are fine, but the reality is, the education community needs to have lawyers to help with this.
: maybe we need oraise money for a legafnd for educating ourselves
: I will forward Michael's comments for our State Lobbyist
: legal fund
: Good topic, look at the full chat room.
: something like that.
: I think the higher education community has lawyers and lobbiests who could help with this as well as the next issue which is DOPA
: ~30 in the chat room?
: Yes, Stephen..good point
: similar to our political system
: what did D2L do differently than anyone else using BB??
: Jason, you are right on the ball, what a good host.
: What about GNU and the free software association? Have they developed a sense of advocacy?
: Oh noes, not a host, That's Jeff and Dave. I'm just an intern. :)
: I meant host in terms of the welcome committee and looking out for people, in a good way.:-)
: dopa next...
: good show Dave!
: Cheryl, we need to count this as Professional Development ;)
: It is interesting to define who "the community" really is. Do they have representation in front of business of government to advocate for issues such as those we are discussing at the moment?
: Blackboard said "the patent covers only specific features and functionality contained in the Blackboard system that were developed by the Blackboard team. We certainly did not invent e-learning or course management systems" just to help new viewers
: Thank you for coming, John.
: Good point, I will start logging these hours.
: Why do you think D2L became the target of BB??
: and not other companies??
: D2L is taking customers from Blackboard % WebCT
: by using the BB idea or the BB software??
: type the email
: May I add a comment?REquest to John?
: coming at you
: D2L has its own software
: is it like Moodle? or closer to BB?
: If you're on a mic, turn down the sound & use headphones :)
: edtechtalk should start a group for patent lawyers who might be interested in this issues to help advocate on behalf of this "community"
: Canadian companies (see Blackberry as well) seem to be a popular target of patent litigation.
: headphones please
: wanna get on that Jeff and Dave :D :D
: I'm on a headset.
: sound is fine now
: everything is cool sorry
: Michael, love your blog!
: Thanks to John for coming and talking.
: it is ia toss up as to which is more controversial: the Bb patent stuff or DOPA
: Good Luck to D2l
: DOPA in the US, Blackboard patent outside of the US
: My Democratic Congressman voted for it
: but as the US goes might also go the rest of the world?
: DOPA, if it passes, is a precedent that Canadians will surely follow
: Not on DOPA
: As did mine -- but I wrote him and have a meeting with him on August 16th
: We need to send our govt. officials samples of what will no longer be available to us.
: I would be interested about why Cdns might not necessarily follow...??
: luckiily my local rep is quite accessible
: Examples of what we won't be able to access would make it more real to them, the only way to fight the media and predators.
: in Brazil it's not a big issue...well, most people are not connected, jeff
: most of the classes are very traditional...
: Cheryl, there are so many Preditor stories in the local news media
: please ask for mic if you'd like to chime in
: So Carla, it is really important for you to have people blog with your students since they won't have local access.
: I work in a very conservative school - once they see this... it's over
: I just can't see sweeping prohibition of types of website as being constitutional here
: Has the industry responded? What does MySpace have to say?
: teens are into IM, etc..but not blogging, not many of them...
: It would be great if this group could come up with a draft letter to key Sentaors on the Committee
: the political conservates rule the legislation
: jeff and dave: I asked danah boyd to join you tonight on this but she could not make it... she has written extrensively on the subject of the important of thiongs like MySpace and Live Journal
: Put in in the blogoshpere and have everyone send it
: would love to talk to you about it b.
: go Stephens
: danah's post:http://www.danah.org/papers/MySpaceDOPA.html
: Who has made a good list of restrictions if passed
: Good point
: everything but wikipedia would be affected (in terms of multiple user sites)
: Would flickr, clustr maps, Frappr survive Dopa?
: Frappr, Flickr, mySpace, LJ...
: Supreme Court case in the making
: cheryl: yes
: If enough bad press is given to this in the States - then other countries might regard it as too silly
: because there is, by their terms, no supervision
: In Spain recently, a student was held responsible for an anonymous comment on his blog and fined 400 Euros
: Yes, I think this will become a freedom of speech -- or freedom to view??? issue
: but if you read the legislation...it is NOT about limiting predators, it is about limiting access
: where are the librairians?
: Unfortunately, it happens all the time.
: right barbara
: so is this a matter of rewriting our AUPs?
: who polices the Spainish fines? the teachers?
: e.g., PATRIOT Act
: Yes, I think AUP'S will be totally rewritten
: That's signing statements. Slightly different.
: in this case, John, the student blog was a private, non-school blog
: I would love to see a good AUP that addresses MySpace etc
: I think there will be so many addendums -- I hear it won't affect colleges -- but what about the students who are younger than 18 that ARE college students now?
: Carla AUP's are written acceptable use policies that all students/employees have to sign in school districts. If you break the rules, you lose your internet access.
: Great work, guys.
: excellent night buys
: Hear hear
: Cheryl, if they get caught
: I would guess the house passed the bill because few representatives had any clue of what was at stake.
: NO -- don't make me choose
: tough choice!
: read the legislation, folks... you will be amazed
: I think it is important for the community to use the bloggosphere to get letter to key Sentators
: Exactly, John
: will both be recorded?
: they have no idea what is at stake
: yes they will
: oh man...dual skypes
: Okay, Barb, you have made me want to read this myself. Thanks,
: but if a blogg movement were to take it on.
: that would be NEWS
: EdTechTalk DOPA skypecast... https://skypecasts.skype.com/skypecasts/skypecast/detailed.html?id_talk=...
: Senators only listen to their own constituents
: not true
: Important to contact your *own* Senator
: Which is which?
: dang which on to pick...decissions decissions
: I've written to my senators, but I think it will require more than one letter,email.
: phew recording
: I've never liked small groups
: True, but staffers really pull the strings
: so, if there were a blogg movement on this issue,
: me either stephen
: they would listen
: oh man break out groups
: Have to head out. Will look for the recordings. Cheryl bye all
: look how MySpace effected the immigration issue in CA and AZ
: I have to go too - goodnight everyone
: good night graham
: Cya Graham
: do we have a skype Address yet??
: I have an answer to that.
: You won't like it.
: I'm lost...which room is this?
: you mean tell me.
: if you wanna chat.
: SPEAK UP
: i'll find you
: DOPA text... http://edtechtalk.com/node/174
: DOPA... Deleting Our Personal Access
: I lost the skype to DOPA
: I agree
: excellent point
: Anyone here use MySpace?
: I check my students ALL the time
: And won't it just drive their networking underground?
: keep up with their goings ons
: I have checked students on myspace and they are shocked that I can see what they have written
: I agree we need to educate how to keep students safe.
: so, jeff, if they need parental supervision, are they going to do that with all kinds of communication, including cell phones?
: Shouldn't we try and teach this to the congressmen?
: i think we need to teach them
: I have stopped lessons on a totally different subject to address blog/online safety
: Do you allow them to add you as friends in MySpace?
: Has this issue been taken up by national assocations of Colleges and Univesities which DO have lawyers and lobbiests who can take on these issues
: (sorry: is the chatroom for the DOPA conversation?)
: in brazil, orkut is VERY popular
: that's what i try to do too! I'm in Orkut with my students
: Is there any problems with orkut in Brazil. Any sensational news stories surrounding it?
: parents here don't even know what blogging is...
: yes, Jason. But i think in the US it's a bigger issue.
: in my case, in brazil, I really want to teach students to use those tools in a healthy, positive way
: I wrote my senators and contacted the NEA and asked what they were doing for me about it - didn't get a reply from any of them
: write them again
: We neet to keep the heat on.
: oh yes
: Oh, I will
: jeff, I'll get my teens' view to share with you!
: Folks: there is so much education about thses tools that have to happen just to gtet people up to steam... just explaining how we arecommunicatiing right now would impossible for some folks to understand
: they are really into IM, Orkut...
: Make it a union issue.
: Afraid I have to check out. Thanks.
: Technology is wonderful, tried to launch Skype and man, what a mistake
: have you all seen this?
: That education needs to be there for so many people (parent, teachers, administrators, politicians, etc.)
: I thought it was terrific
: we have one :)
: Let's protect our kids for learning something...
: yes I love it!
: Edtech talk would serve the community well by drafting a letter that people could SEND via e-mail to Sentators to vote NO on this issue
: no one has a clue
: as to what is at stake
: that is a good idea Johnm
: MAY I?
: put it on a wiki
: draft it
: send it off to the key senators, via e-mail
: need to get on it now,
: follow up with a phone call and/or visit to their aids on the hill
: the Legislative Aids are KEY
: flood thier offices with letters from the bloggosphere
: The letter can and should be drafted SOON
: I am planning to talk to students about it right away, but we don't come back into session until Sept.
: thanks, jeff!
: I sent my Congressman a Fax on DOPA and he still voted in favor of it
: talk to the aids
: it's interesting to know what you are thinking, because our reality is totally different
: great work
: What's the skype cast address again?
: Man, my laptop did not like launching SKYPE with everything running
: I will have to launch SKYPE prior to any future ETTs
: An academic paper is ONE approach but you need to have lawyers on this as well
: Dave made an interesting suggestion to have a law school take this on....
: Michael Geist?
: or as I sugggested before, have an edtechtalk show for lawyers interested in the issue
: that's a great idea john
: ask Michael for advice? http://www.michaelgeist.ca/
: Harold, yes Stephen said he's been in touch with Michael
: excellent - I was offline for a while
: bye got to go. Looking forward to listening to podcast.
: bye Jose
: the blackboard issue is only the opening salvo to the open source community
: bye Jose
: I sent an email to Michael
: is that Innovate? Enovate? dang I can not spelel
: you will serve "the community" well by establishing an on-going conversation for lawyers become part of these discusssions.
: thanks, I am on their mailing list,
: This is not only about power.....
: it is about making money!!
: power is a way to facilite the means to have some make money faster than others.
: this group has "power" just has to learn how to use it to its advantage.
: I am afraid we will have to buy "packages" from those few who control the internet...they offer packages like satellite tv...only for internet...
: Power = money, money=power
: that is why Ruppert Murdock is so big in Internet blogging
: $$$ ;)
: What happened with Myspace and its influcence on the immigration protests
: This social software has yet to realize its potential
: that's sounds interesting
: IF it can translate chat into policy
: DOPA has the conservative right behind it and money talks...I would bet that is does pass
: Well, I saw it cause students to uprise against something they knew nothing about.
: and influencing those in power to work with them.
: MySpace rallied them -- but didn't educate them
: I know that
: its the rallying that is the important piece
: I'm not familair with the immgrant protest angle
: I believe you need to be informed before you rally
: again -- IMHO
: That's not the point Jen, the point is the potential social software has in influencing the power structures.
: yes, I agree with that
: the news media is very much a fear monger about predeter online
: Great point
: great night
: night Jen
: that is because the mommybloggers have realized the influence they can have on policy
: this group needs to see that
: thanks verymuch everyone -- this has been great!
: Don't you think though that everything -- even myspace becomes an area to breed fear rather than knowledge
: if you don't understand myspace
: if used improperly
: Thanks for a great show! You guys Rock
: Good show :)
: I have to run very soon
: nice to be on the same website as you Stephen -- such a treat
: or skypecast I guess
: crash time?
: Thanks Jen :)
: Thanks so much Stephen for discussing my questions as well...
: thanks Stephen, Michael and all for a great show
: and very impressive to get the D2L gentleman too!!!
: Night all :)
: Thanks Michael for everything
: I agree, Michael
: Jeff and Dave...great job.
: thanks everyone -- much appreciated!
: Gotta run... bye everyone :)
: Please ask for mic if anyone would like to join in
: bye stephen
: Hi Joyce - they were looking for a librarian earlier
: join the skypecast
: we won!
: “He who receives ideas from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine receives light without darkening me”
: Thomas Jefferson
: This is great conversation, but I do think we would all benefit from the opinions of one or more patent lawyers who know patent law
: All the US patent Office is Google to search for prior art in this case
: See you tomorrow Dave. :D
: Lawrence Lessig?
: EFF would be good start
: BErkman Center at Harvard
: Al Essa has contacted EFF
: i am late--did we discuss university ownership of faculty-developed content?
: Some of the universities that developed this technology have highly-skilled IP lawyers. The researchers who developed these systems should push their university legal staff to get on-board.
: hi all
: Hello Martin
: hey martin
: Hi Martin
: Delighted you could join us
: We hoped if we just kept talking you'd show up :)
: Hello Martin
: glad to be here
: Hello Bob
: Good Idea
: Hello all.
: I would sign the letter he is talking about -- we are a forum now!! A recognized forum
: Got to run- see ya'll
: Yes, draft it so it is consistantly described to legislators
: i love this idea. it can be posted as well on all of our blogs
: The word has to get out, bigtime
: Its a little hard to beleive that any of this happens on the part of ignorance of the people who write the laws.
: Even if they are ignorannnt, their staffs are not.
: that is true, but maybe not.
: Indeed, if ignorance is present, it is in the part of thier constituents.
: What impact have the "mommybolggers" had on this legislation
: i don't think their staffs are ignorant but I think their staffs aren't informed.
: what number of them have actually helped draft the legislation
: our work with educational blogging is less mainstream than we would think
: what was the link he gave please
: thank you
: what a night -- the D2L guy, Stephen D, Michael F., Martin D.........wow
: and all of us
: Yes Jen, I agree
: where do I begin to blog about this????? :)
: you go
: ??? Can we quote the BB letter on our blog???? or would you rather we not???
: good night all......thanks Dave and Jeff for a GREAT show!
: Night John
: ah yes, CORBA ;-)
: Virtually anyone can file a patent for anything....it is when someone goes to court to say that another had violated a patent, that the excitement should begin.
: And a patent can only exist until a court says it cant.
: SO to some extent these appear to be test cases.
: The very reason that this case in the states was filed in the Eastern Court of Texas is because that set of courts is fairly well koown as the Patent Pirates courts.
: very interesting, elderbob
: The Harvard Mouse, anyone?
: Business process patents, which are also evil
: what was the name of the man from D2L??
: Me too
: John MacLeod?
: Thank you
: History of Virtual Learnign Environments
: Thanks Martin!
: Thank you, Martin.
: interesting ??
: If we had only known
: can we post that about MS and Moodle?
: What about Moodle and Google....
: LOL -- okay it is blogged
: Will Googles efforts to provide space for open source help moodle.
: THank you so much .. this has been very informative
: EXCELLENT NIGHT
: bye all!
: Thanks, guys
: Great show!
: Party on, dudes
: wonderful discussion, thanks all
: great show, thanks
: Great for everyone's participation.
: bye all
: Great night again
: Night All
: By Michael!
: Is discussion over?