CCK08 Week#1 Dicussion with Stephen Downes & George Siemens, moderated by Dave Cormier
- Length: 50:07 minutes (22.94 MB)
- Format: MP3 Mono 44kHz 64Kbps (CBR)
September 12, 2008
Chat Log Below 
12:07 ustreamer-63419 : Jo Ann yes
12:07 ustreamer-84266 : I am hearing you
12:07 sebathuer : is working!
12:07 BirdieQ : how do I get audio?
12:07 debcarter : i hear audio -- everyone else?
12:08 BirdieQ : Oh, there it is.
12:08 ustreamer-84266 : Lisa HOw can I change my 82466 name to my real one?
12:08 LisaMLane : @BirdieQ might need to log out and in again
12:08 sebathuer : yes, I hear too!
12:08 LisaMLane : #84266 get an account or use OpenID
12:08 LisaMLane : we'll hear Stephen rattling his paper clips
12:08 anitsirk : there is a voice :-)
12:10 ustreamer-5117 : btw, no video...
12:10 ustreamer-94675 : Jo Ann: no video? do some have video?
12:10 LisaMLane : yeah, I want to see Stephen's yard again
12:11 coarsesalt : fire in questions in here :)
12:11 coarsesalt : i'm ur host :)
12:11 IanLeighton : woo hoo I'm not a number anymore
12:12 LisaMLane : recalling some comments on the Moodle forum, can a person be a node or are that person's ideas a node?
12:12 lornacos : it is interesting that controversy draws people into the discussion
12:13 ustreamer-73066 : I think she gathered us more that she intended
12:13 LisaMLane : she's certainly a disruptive force, not that that's a bad thing necessarily
12:14 LisaMLane : the topic wasn't heated, just the attitude
12:14 coarsesalt : http://ltc.umanitoba.ca:83/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=473 
12:14 BirdieQ : I remember that behavior in first grade
12:14 jennymackness : not disruptive - critical
12:14 lornacos : disrpution makes investigate our own thoughts and sharpen how we think
12:14 ustreamer-5117 : btw - anyone have any questions?
12:15 BirdieQ : now it's sophisticated, and still part of the conversation
12:15 LisaMLane : I had one -- should I repeat?
12:15 BirdieQ : agreement is too easy
12:15 ustreamer-5117 : i think dave is following...
12:15 jennymackness : can you comment on how this theory might apply to children's learning?
12:15 sebathuer : thanks for the link coarseaslt!
12:16 jcrom : Hi Lisa I am back with my name now!
12:16 LisaMLane : hi jcrom!
12:16 coarsesalt : I AM GATHERING QUESTIONS
12:16 jcrom : Hi!
12:17 LisaMLane : oooh moderation -- good idea
12:17 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I would like to hear how George and Stephen think connectivism is realated to aspects of brain research as we know it now -- or speculative in the future. How is this kind of learning changing our brains? (e.g.)
12:18 lornacos : it was really helpful that we had the mapping of the participants
12:18 LisaMLane : not everyone did the map tho :-(
12:18 LisaMLane : but Rodd, it's so cool
12:18 Rodd_Lucier : The map goes on for a few different pages now...
12:18 BirdieQ : where is it?
12:18 lornacos : illustrates the magnitude of the class
12:18 LisaMLane : I keep waiting for more balloons in SoCal
12:18 sebathuer : Map link: http://ltc.umanitoba.ca:83/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?id=162 
12:18 Rodd_Lucier : www.tinyurl.com/cck08map 
12:19 anitsirk : the map is a cool starting point. trevor meister wants to do much more with virtualization.
12:19 BirdieQ : Oh, the global map.
12:19 Rodd_Lucier : Finding a few key allies to interact with may be the best way to have a rich experience
12:19 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I would like to learn how to make the map for classes I do in the future. Link for this information would be appreciated or perhaps we should just contact the person who did it for us this time.
12:19 anitsirk : link to trevor's post: http://learningontheedge.com/?p=64 
12:20 coarsesalt : nice one anitsirk
12:20 davidal : Another Question!: Is the connectivism a NEW explanation of the knowledge or a BETTER explanation (related to the new cognitivism theories)?
12:20 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks for link anitsirk
12:21 anitsirk : oh no stephen. that's a lot of unnecessary additional work. :-(
12:21 LisaMLane : that's why I'm desperately getting every thing into feeds
12:21 lornacos : I am finding some of the participants overwhelmed by the new applications
12:21 LisaMLane : even Google Alerts
12:21 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: yes I agree that linking with a few people or a couple of groups -- is a good idea.
12:22 sebathuer : This is my question: Is there any pre-requeriments for a connective learning? Constructivism supouse you must have language and logic to learn.
12:22 Rodd_Lucier : It's not new... the word is new but the experience of connecting has always been there
12:23 LisaMLane : there's a problem with causality here
12:23 LisaMLane : there's correspondence, not causality
12:23 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: new experiences -- rate of experience and kind of sensory modalities -- many at once.
12:23 lornacos : you can get wired with the large amount fo infromation
12:24 DavidDElliott : Is Connectivism an additive theory to earlier theories or a replacement?
12:24 LisaMLane : do crossword puzzles!
12:24 LisaMLane : isn't that cognitive?
12:24 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: reasearch does show -- Brain Age games -- and exercise -- help the brain.
12:25 Rodd_Lucier : neuroscience/computer science/social science.. there are parallels, but maybe it's just metaphors for understanding
12:26 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I think this reasearch is going to be exponentially developed in the next few years. There is neurology reasearch linking with phenomenomoly now --
12:26 coarsesalt : @Rodd... is it French or english? your name?
12:26 ustreamer-95394 : Somebody knows Mentopolis from Marvin Minski?
12:26 carlosgc : My question: Is connectivism not really a new "materialistic aproach" to the knowledge?
12:26 Rodd_Lucier : Loo_See- eh
12:26 sebathuer : lornacos: do you refer to information overload?
12:27 coarsesalt : @rodd txs
12:27 lornacos : yes
12:27 LisaMLane : I'm beginning to think it's data overload, not information overload.
12:27 ustreamer-95394 : Rodd_Lucier : Mentopolis shows these parallels
12:27 lornacos : just the simple task of how to best organize the delivery of content
12:27 wmcgrath5011 : what may be most newhere is that rapid tech and tool changes have given us a different metaphor - plus speed and access - to describe processes
12:27 coarsesalt : my last minute issue from Wednesday http://flickr.com/photos/89618789@N00/2849811298/ 
12:27 ustreamer-33452 : I see connectivism as a way of takinga dvantage of ITC for generating knowledge and learning. Whay I've found really revealing in the papers we got for the course is that Connectivism is just publicizing what it is happening in e-learning (I don't remember the exact words now).
12:27 scottmerrick : maybe a diff. perspective might be "connection overload"
12:28 lornacos : so many great blogs to read and can't get to them all
12:28 ustreamer-67607 : I felt more connected with the daily email summary
12:28 iamarf : no, it may be correct description of reality and that may be beautiful, why materialist?
12:28 sebathuer : yes, but the idea of the course is to make your "own" connections
12:28 davidal : Question: Does connectivism explain how we've been learning in the past??? Can you apply the theory to the XIX century, for example??
12:28 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann -- Lornacos -- overload management has been very important in my experience. My limited management skills have gone off my personal charts in the last few years -- and I wonder where that will go -- but not just for me -- but for others -- as they have more information to think about
12:28 anitsirk : @coarsesalt: congratulations!
12:28 Rodd_Lucier : The daily summary is a great way to compile thoughts from all around...
12:29 jcrom : The Fractal pattern
12:29 LisaMLane : I ask because in the forum folks aren't comfortable with the person being a node.
12:29 jcrom : Networks nested in networks
12:29 scottmerrick : url for presentation?
12:29 coarsesalt : @carlosgc could you elaborate your question?
12:30 LisaMLane : YES it connects to the division of personalities we were discussing Wednesday.
12:30 carlosgc : to iamarf... materialist because the important point is technology... the materia
12:30 carlosgc : the knowledge is not more "in" the person... it is in the "machine"...???
12:30 scottmerrick : i think that was a "yes"
12:30 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Yes the summaries, networks in networks, the mappings for us all -- helps a lot. These daily reports help bring me into a centering process.
12:30 iamarf : yes, it simply explaind how people learn, inte past as well as now
12:31 ustreamer-50330 : Jo ann I think there is interactivity between.
12:31 ustreamer-67607 : Do you still receive the daily summary?
12:31 ustreamer-67607 : I must have done something because I don't receive it
12:32 LisaMLane : yes, so each idea represents a neural network, right?
12:32 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Yes -- I have been receiving them and also for another course -- I'm taking at the same time -- and it really helps me with focus.
12:32 ustreamer-5117 : @67607 - spam folder?
12:32 LisaMLane : a separate neural network, not duplicatable
12:32 jomiralb : Does connectivism happen also in informal specialized social networks sites?
12:32 sebathuer : #67607: go here to view "the daily":
12:33 sebathuer : http://connect.downes.ca/thedaily.htm 
12:33 carlosgc : thank you
12:33 LisaMLane : that means you can't recreate the neural path to have everyone learn the same way
12:33 jcrom : Networks at the neural level, at the conceptual level, at the social level and at the infostructure level. A fractal of networks.
12:33 coarsesalt : only one of the points?
12:33 coarsesalt : :P
12:33 coarsesalt : yay paper :)
12:34 scottmerrick : @sebathuer thanks
12:34 ustreamer-67607 : Thanks Jo An, I'll check my settings
12:34 LisaMLane : it's part of my mission to make sure we've got historical context here
12:34 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: There is theory that we all filter through our brains and bodies as in past experience and in biology. Seems that's what makes it all so interesting.
12:34 scottmerrick : is my vid blocked or is there none, just audio
12:34 anitsirk : there's only audio
12:35 coarsesalt : MORE QUESTIONS PLEASE
12:35 Rodd_Lucier : connectivism is about building on other concepts... not about starting new, so I would hope the concept of connectivism evoved and continues to evolve this way
12:35 sebathuer : yes sebastian thuer!
12:35 BirdieQ : How do you test the theory of connectivism?
12:35 DavidDElliott : Again, is Connectivism an extension of other theories in a new context or a replacement?
12:35 jomiralb : Is there any conmnection between Social Capital and Connectivism?
12:36 LisaMLane : oh, I don't know...
12:36 coarsesalt : @davide i was taking that as answered earlier
12:36 coarsesalt : i'll ask it
12:36 Rodd_Lucier : ?
12:36 Rodd_Lucier : When was the term connectivism first attached to these concepts?
12:36 iamarf : connectivism is a replacement: emphasis on spontaneous growing
12:36 LisaMLane : it's *because* they know so much and write about it all the time!
12:37 ustreamer-601 : andreas here: Wouldn't be time to get from connectivism as network metaphor to the quality of the links between the nodes? What are we able to say about this? In which different qualities are we connected?
12:37 jcrom : Is connectivismo a learning theory only or it is a theory that applies to every networked reality?
12:37 LisaMLane : experts cannot think as simplistically as novices
12:37 sebathuer : what happend with my question? i couldn't hear the response
12:37 LisaMLane : @jcrom Can't it be both?
12:37 davidal : jcrom> I would add to our question Can you explain the reality in terms of networks? So ou can use just connectivism?
12:38 iamarf : connectivism aplly to every networked reality
12:38 iamarf : uff, there is a thunderstorm here, no video no audio
12:38 LisaMLane : maybe one could post the question like this: what is the difference between connectivism and just making connections?
12:39 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: The practical ramifications -- theoretically or philosophicall -- does influence what happens to our students from K- post secondary and on.
12:39 sebathuer : Ok, thanks. Maybe a good idea for a next blog post.
12:39 jcrom : Lisa, the Science of Complexity are finding theories that apply to many different worlds, and I have the suspiction that this is the case of Connectivism.
12:40 iamarf : connectivism concerns networks ANd "emergence" of new attributes
12:40 Rodd_Lucier : metaphors are a better replacement for words for explaining concepts... hence the use of metaphors of the time... the brain, computer networks...
12:40 ustreamer-601 : @LisaMLane: The Knowing about that one connecting person is also envelved with other peoples in connection? So in dead many 2 many relationships
12:40 ustreamer-5117 : @sebathuer - sorry for butchering your question (george here)
12:41 LisaMLane : @601 but isn't that just making more connections?
12:41 ustreamer-601 : But there is more 2 know. you reach other nodes and other knowledge through the network
12:41 scottmerrick : have to run to teach, ya'll, thanks, very provocative convers.
12:42 ustreamer-601 : imagine the 10 people theorem. knowing 10 people means 2 know the whole world.
12:42 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Connectivism, to me incorporates many factors that have accelerated -- and perhaps -- changed the way the brain/body is influenced -- going on with the social, technological, body/brain responses, feelings, processing, and the information passed along to people, between and within people.
12:43 BirdieQ : human learning appears to be at a higher level of complexity than animal learning. What does connectivism say about that?
12:43 sebathuer : no problem, george.
12:43 LisaMLane : have to go for now -- thanks and see y'all online
12:44 ustreamer-601 : ba lisa
12:44 ustreamer-601 : beye lisa
12:44 fridemar : bye lisa
12:44 ustreamer-47502 : So for a society to learn - assuming parts of the society are nodes - connections mean exchange - so i'd assume there is a need for something like a language - "meaningfull" exchange.
12:45 fridemar : How many minutes are left for th Ustream?
12:45 ustreamer-5117 : 15 min
12:45 fridemar : Thanks
12:45 jomiralb : As Steve has said a precondition would be nodes and links, but what about DSpcial capital?
12:46 ustreamer-601 : In dead it is!
12:46 ustreamer-601 : ;-)
12:47 diliniw : question: how does connetivism see communities of practice? I'm working with improving Local Government service delivery by improving their knowledge.
12:47 mmvcentro : Important point
12:47 sebathuer : thanks jomiralb.
12:48 ustreamer-1028 : Hi all--accidentally deleted my daily email this AM and just now found you all! Sorry!
12:48 ustreamer-601 : #handclap context is king ;-)
12:48 Rodd_Lucier : Just in time learning... to scaffold experiences of the networked learner
12:49 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks -- great talk on options and context.
12:49 jomiralb : Is there need of a specific dynamization inside the network? A sort of leadership?
12:50 wmcgrath5011 : where is the locus of learning in network? in the nodes? in the interstices? as a dynamic? in conversation with another, we are co creating an experience - but where is learning? – in what I take away as a node? Or is there a relationship that is learning as well?
12:50 Rodd_Lucier : We are trapped in building on the solutions already established!
12:50 ustreamer-601 : replace leadership with guidance?
12:50 carlosgc : learning is now... ; )
12:50 Rodd_Lucier : If we didn't have schools, classrooms and grades, would we start there to educate folks?
12:50 jomiralb : Thanks ustreamer-601
12:51 jomiralb : Thank yo sebathauer
12:52 fridemar : @Rodd, Minimal invasive learning might be the answer :-)
12:52 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: inter-relationships in teaching is about guidance, the help that the orgainized communications -- instructional design with links, and some roadmaps -- that in turn can help the experience of the learner - without adding excessive stress.
12:52 fridemar : "Hole in the wall"
12:52 Rodd_Lucier : @wmcgrath5011 Is learning in the strengthening of the connections as much as the development of new connections?
12:53 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Affordance of opportunity --"Hole in the wall".
12:53 Rodd_Lucier : @fridemar Touche
12:53 ustreamer-5117 : @50330 - and in certain contexts, that level of organization can be the perfect approach
12:53 iamarf : wmcgrath5011: learnin is na emergent phenomenum, networks in nature produce emergent phenomena
12:53 ustreamer-601 : @Rodd_Lucier Have in Mind which things hou have 2 have learned to be enabled to take the maximum use.
12:54 jomiralb : Yes but social capital draws a specific dynamic kinside the network and maybe this can influence the result of connecticism?
12:54 jomiralb : Thinkins in strong ties and weak ties I believe that they may influence leartning inside the network
12:54 Rodd_Lucier : ... and yet the Jennifer Aniston neuron may exist! (Medina''s Brain Rules)
12:54 ustreamer-601 : @Rodd_Lucier : so it isn't the question of replacing its the question of how to enrich
12:54 diliniw : thanks for that!
12:55 Rodd_Lucier : May not be more dominant, but may be unique
12:55 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Action-oriented particiapation --at the foundation then -- and for more people too.
12:55 Rodd_Lucier : Always it's about enrich! Purpose, engagement, value, real.... Too much of formal learning is irrelevant to the world of our charges
12:56 LDinSTL : I'm still trying to figure out which is the ONE webpage that will give me links to all the pieces of the course I need to know about. :-)
12:56 LDinSTL : Blog? Wiki? Other?
12:56 sebathuer : the wiki
12:56 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: relevancy -- yes -- to the learner.
12:56 Rodd_Lucier : the wiki... http://ltc.umanitoba.ca/wiki/Connectivism 
12:56 mmvcentro : Wiki
12:56 LDinSTL : thx--tooo many notes!
12:57 LDinSTL : in my life
12:57 iamarf : yes, the wiki but relax, too http://iamarf.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/cck08-letso-go-for-a-walk-in-a-wo... 
12:57 fridemar : anitoba.ca/wiki/CmapsForCck08
12:57 ustreamer-601 : Control? Not sure if i got it right?!
12:57 Rodd_Lucier : making our own 'Connections'!
12:58 fridemar : yes
12:58 sebathuer : yes, that's the idea.... select your nodes and make your our connections
12:58 fridemar : with cmaps on a public cmapserver
12:58 ustreamer-601 : no it slows my mac to sleep!! :-)
12:58 fridemar : it is a daunting task, that can only be mastered, if we all weave the web
12:59 LDinSTL : ZPD issue :-)
12:59 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I think the cmaps is something to explore more -- for visual-conceptual.
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : came in late on the chat but have been listening...HELLO!!
12:59 davidal : Is a pleasure!
12:59 davidal : Thanks you all
12:59 BirdieQ : np
12:59 jomiralb : Thank you all!
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : this is Susan in Italy
12:59 BirdieQ : thanks
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : thanks
12:59 voges : in holland it lopoked like it was on 19 hrs!!
12:59 BirdieQ : same time same place?
12:59 mmvcentro : Thanks
12:59 LDinSTL : I don't see the video--any tips?
01:00 carlosgc : bye bye
01:00 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks for connecting.
01:00 jmerritt : thanks
01:00 sebathuer : thanks you!!
01:00 diliniw : thanks you!
01:00 ustreamer-601 : handclap thank you all! :-)
01:00 sharongs : Thanks so much. This has been really useful in terms of getting a grasp on some concepts.
01:00 jcrom : Thanks
01:00 anitsirk : thank you
01:00 fridemar : Thanks
01:00 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: no video
01:00 LDinSTL : ahha--that would explain it lol
01:00 DavidDElliott : Thanks!
01:00 mmvcentro : claps to you. Maru
01:00 IanLeighton : fade to black....
01:00 fridemar : Why not putting these videos on YouTube?
01:00 voges : the timetable was not correct! i am a bit sad about that
01:00 LDinSTL : I wanted to see their smiling faces
01:00 mmvcentro : no video either
01:01 anitsirk : @voges: there was a glitch in the time conversion. the daily said 11, but it was linked to 12 pm winnipeg time = 7 pm. the netherlands
01:01 fridemar : for embedding them in wikis, allowing connected comments
01:01 LDinSTL : daylight savings time issue
01:01 LDinSTL : that was a standard time conversion, looks like
01:01 voges : no it wasw not on 19 hr because that's now on this moment and you are not thera any longer.
01:01 fridemar : Somebody knows the Aboutus.org wiki?
01:01 anitsirk : no. it was only linked wrongly. the other time conversions were correct as far as i have seen.
01:02 LDinSTL : operator error?
01:02 LDinSTL : hehe
01:02 ustreamer-59398 : ciao Andreas
01:02 dolors : Thanks Geotge and Stephen
01:02 voges : did it start an hour ago? than it was 18 hr in holland
01:02 anitsirk : maybe. next time: the time difference for most part of europe is 7 hours
01:02 fridemar : All cck08 who have a web/blog can have their permanent representation there and connect
01:02 LDinSTL : just now over--I lost my email and was really late too
01:02 LDinSTL : where is everyone who is still here?
01:02 fridemar : cck-participants
01:03 LDinSTL : I'm in St. Louis, MO
01:03 diliniw : sri lanka
01:03 LDinSTL : cool!