- Length: 52:42 minutes (48.25 MB)
- Format: MP3 Mono 44kHz 128Kbps (CBR)
January 31, 2010
This Week's Delicious Links 
Chat Log Below 
18:51:51 JohnS: Hey, guys.
18:52:07 JohnS: Matt: just got your message. No problem. If I forget, remind me.
18:52:20 Scott Shelhart: Hello
18:52:50 Scott Shelhart: UStream was up for a minute, then gone.
18:53:23 matt montagne: hey all...
18:53:25 matt montagne: thanks JS
18:53:28 matt montagne: appreciate it...
18:53:40 matt montagne: hey scott
18:53:52 Scott Shelhart: Hi Matt
18:54:57 dave: streaming edtechtalk A
18:56:00 Cathy E: echo
18:56:03 Scott Shelhart: Echo on ETTA
18:56:48 Cathy E: both of you
18:56:50 Cathy E: have echo
18:56:56 Scott Shelhart: It is a very clean echo. Nicely done.
18:57:08 Scott Shelhart: :D
18:57:10 matt montagne: indeed a clean echo scott!
18:57:34 matt montagne: sometimes on a mac it is the secquence of events in setting up nicecast
18:57:38 Cathy E: still echo
18:57:52 Scott Shelhart: both
18:57:58 Gary: Ustream or not?
18:58:12 dawn: i have echo too but i did last week to to to to
18:58:32 Cathy E: still echo with just Dave
18:59:06 Scott Shelhart: echo gone
18:59:27 Scott Shelhart: all better
18:59:33 Cathy E: ahhh much better
18:59:51 dawn: :D
19:01:59 JohnS: http://www.iste.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=News_and_Events&Template=/CM... 
19:02:33 JohnS: http://www.educon22.org/ 
19:03:17 PeggyG: Hi everyone--great to hear from you since I was afraid everyone was at educon
19:03:30 PeggyG: I spent the weekend participating in Educon virtually
19:05:31 Scott Shelhart: You have to know the destination b4 you decide on a route.
19:05:36 page: Children still need to know how to think.
19:06:47 PeggyG: there are still a lot of schools and districts that haven't gone beyond this
19:07:36 PeggyG: could you agree that if you don't have/do these things you can't move forward?
19:08:38 PeggyG: would love to hear John's response to that
19:08:41 dawn: I agree, technology does not lead classroom. pedagogy does . Do you find AASL standards better?
19:09:21 PeggyG: these are "priorities" and not goals--is there a difference?
19:09:40 matt montagne: that was bill clinton and the eRate project
19:10:26 PeggyG: I just re-watched your video "Challenge" from Africa trip this afternoon, John
19:10:58 JohnS: cool, Peggy. I didn't really intend that for a large audience, but I'm glad you got something out of it.
19:12:06 PeggyG: http://www.iste.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Advocacy/Top_Ten_in_10.htm  Read further on this page re Top 10--focus is on effectiveness
19:12:45 PeggyG: I think it was very informative, John and put it on my favorites :-) (your video)
19:12:47 matt montagne: you train people to be creative by giving immersing them in rich environments with tons of interesting learning objects...you also expose them and immerse them in the arts
19:12:55 Gary: Some schools appeaar to attempt to meet some of these goals by banning the use of technology in the classroom (iPods, cell phones, use of social networks, etc).
19:12:57 matt montagne: I'd give every kid in this country a violin before a laptop
19:13:46 PeggyG: commitment to programs and instructional efforts that can have maximum effect on instruction and student outcomes
19:13:50 mrsdurff: love controvery
19:14:01 Scott Shelhart: Hi Durff
19:14:09 mrsdurff: hi scott
19:14:12 dawn: :D
19:14:16 mrsdurff: educon is over boys
19:14:59 PeggyG: the conference is over but the learning and reflection lives on!!!
19:15:08 mrsdurff: true
19:15:36 Scott Shelhart: Thanks Peggy. You reminded me that I still have a reflection to write
19:15:41 matt montagne: that is the wrong question...should every kid have an iPad
19:15:43 PeggyG: every kid in the school shouldn't have everything!!
19:15:49 mrsdurff: how much are iPads?
19:16:02 Scott Shelhart: Twice the price of a netbook
19:16:05 matt montagne: here is a question...are we ready to allow students to create their own hardware learning mashup?
19:16:06 dave: 49-899
19:16:07 mrsdurff: ouch
19:16:08 PeggyG: will look forward to reading your reflection Scott-will it be on your blog?
19:16:12 dave: 499-899
19:16:29 matt montagne: I could see a student using an iPad AND a netbook
19:16:36 PeggyG: I agree Matt
19:16:41 matt montagne: or, a Kindle and a laptop
19:16:44 mrsdurff: every kid should have a world-class education, not necessarily all the new toys
19:16:53 matt montagne: bascially, let kids CHOOSE!!! who cares what we think??
19:17:00 Scott Shelhart: Yep. The entire student teaching experience blogged at http://www.shelhart.blogspot.com/ 
19:17:04 PeggyG: there are still a number of things missing on the iPad and I would wait for next iteration personally
19:17:20 mrsdurff: i like free
19:17:36 mrsdurff: the iPad is not free
19:17:44 matt montagne: for $800 a kid could get an iPad and a netbook...that is nearly $1200 less than what students at Tablet PC schools use (some tablet PCs cost 2K or more)
19:18:00 PeggyG: I found this live blogging during the iPad announcement very interesting http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/live-blogging-the-apple-product... 
19:18:26 Scott Shelhart: itouch+etch-a-sketch
19:18:34 mrsdurff: our school paid $0 for used desktops
19:18:38 dawn: Here is a link with 14 reviews for Ipad... BTW, I see schools going smaller ad cheaper (in the future)
19:18:40 matt montagne: or, some kid might want to get an entry level macbook + an iTouch...again, there are so many ways to skin the cat.
19:18:41 PeggyG: no camera--still or video. I don't like that
19:19:07 Gary: See http://www.gazmaz.com/  (today's entry) for another view - a tool to work with your computer.
19:19:21 Scott Shelhart: I don't think the iPad is sturdy enough to live in a kid's backpack.
19:19:22 matt montagne: Schools should get out of the computer supply business and give families and teachers a credit to buy their own stuff...let them choose. Choice gives way to creativity and innovation
19:19:23 PeggyG: no removable battery for a device that can suck a lot of power
19:19:40 Scott Shelhart: @matt Exactly!
19:19:50 mrsdurff: the kids do matt - called cellphones
19:20:17 PeggyG: needs flash
19:20:27 PeggyG: so many sites on the web use flash
19:20:32 matt montagne: fundamentally the platform is way too closed...awsome hardware, but Apple is acting in a manner that is WAAAAYYY worse than Microsoft back in the day...
19:21:09 mrsdurff: "back in the day" is exactly when?
19:21:19 PeggyG: that's a good summary--you want it to parallel what you have on the computer but not necessarily on the phone
19:21:24 mrsdurff: we are talking about John
19:21:30 bozemanbiology: How is adopting HTML 5 standards closing the system?
19:22:04 matt montagne: @boze...HTML 5 could be an opening for iPad devs, BUT all the VC money is still going into apps devs...
19:22:12 PeggyG: how many schools do you know that are allowing students to connect with their own personal devices at school?
19:22:24 mrsdurff: ours
19:22:28 bozemanbiology: ours
19:22:47 Scott Shelhart: Not ours...yet.
19:22:53 elona: students arebn't allowed to connect their personal devices at my school
19:22:56 matt montagne: what google did with HTML 5 and google voice is incredible! HTML 5 could open up the iPad/iPhone, etc
19:22:58 PeggyG: I would love links that describe this--student personal devices connected to district servers
19:23:08 Gary: @matt - Some schools view them as some ultimate evil.
19:23:22 PeggyG: or connected to school wireless system...
19:23:38 mrsdurff: don;t have a link = IT connects kids laptops
19:23:40 dawn: @peggy kids are not allowed any tech device in my schools
19:24:00 PeggyG: are any of them NOT 1:1 laptop schools where laptops are provided for students?
19:24:08 matt montagne: getting away from standardized hardware is good pedagogy actually
19:24:09 mrsdurff: not 1:1
19:24:15 mrsdurff: not even close
19:24:23 elona: my school is afraid "something"might happennif kids get connected
19:24:26 dawn: huh standardize hardware but noe ISTE ?? Hmmm
19:24:26 matt montagne: getting away from standardized hardware gets us away from "click here" education
19:24:30 PeggyG: @mrsdurff--your school is private, right?
19:24:36 mrsdurff: yes
19:24:58 matt montagne: actually, that should read, "getting away from standardized hardware/software"
19:25:09 PeggyG: put Matt on the skype call :-)
19:25:34 mrsdurff: arrg - Comcast is killing me
19:25:54 matt montagne: instead of, we are all going to use MS Word, it is, we are all going to have a word processor
19:25:57 matt montagne: not saying that dave
19:26:09 PeggyG: I definitely agree with that Matt!
19:26:12 matt montagne: there should be minimum hardware specs for the core device
19:26:13 mrsdurff: I do matt
19:26:18 dave: @matt of course you aren't... i'm just being a jerk :)
19:26:19 Gary: I was subbing in a science class the other day. They were working on science fair projects and I group was having trouble with a topic. After some discussion, they decided, with some encouragement, to investigate how students, teachers, and parents view the use of personal technology in the classroom. Could be interesting in that particular school.
19:26:25 mrsdurff: i leave option open
19:26:25 matt montagne: and then if they want to add an ereader, ipod, a touch, etc...who cares
19:27:11 matt montagne: yeah, that is my hangup with the iPhone centric platform...the tightly vetted app process is bogus
19:27:36 dave: @matt you can always create your own...
19:27:39 bozemanbiology: bit.ly/bozemanhigh
19:27:46 matt montagne: nah, I don't see it that way, Dave...it is good conversation...this stuff just puts a bee in my bonnet as you can see
19:27:53 dave: :)
19:28:07 matt montagne: Android tablets should open things up...looking forwad to that
19:28:11 mrsdurff: we see that matt
19:28:33 JohnS: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458382/8-things-that-suck-about-the-ipad 
19:28:43 JohnS: http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/9-upcoming-tablet-alternatives-to-the-app... 
19:28:49 dawn: can it beam documents? just wondering
19:28:50 PeggyG: thanks for that link bozemanbiology!!
19:28:58 matt montagne: openness will ultimately prevail...apple can ride the hot app horse while they can, but it won't work forever
19:29:01 Gary: There are going to be many other upcoming alternatives so who knows where this may go http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/9-upcoming-tablet-alternatives-to-the-app... 
19:29:01 bozemanbiology: no worries
19:29:35 matt montagne: there are greater SES divides than tech access...some kids have better health care and can get the best glasses
19:29:36 PeggyG: sounds like the argument for school uniforms--bridge the divide
19:30:11 matt montagne: so the poor kid with a flip and a netbook who makes the viral video gets all the social cred while the rich kid with the heavy macbook pro types away on MS Word...so what
19:30:45 Gary: @John - sorry - we posted the same article about the same time.
19:30:57 mrsdurff: matt that is where we come in
19:30:59 PeggyG: oh no--core knowledge??!!
19:31:01 Scott Shelhart: I don't need to know.....google knows.
19:31:27 matt montagne: fact of the matter, for less than 1K a kid can have an awsome computer and an eReader or iTouch or something...that is INCREDIBLE to me!
19:31:50 mrsdurff: i lost a job by using dave's argument
19:32:08 PeggyG: David Jakes focused his preso at Educon on 5 core essentials!! not core knowledge
19:32:43 mrsdurff: we should know how to find the closest Starbucks
19:33:24 PeggyG: we don't have to remember that @mrsdurff--just speak it into google search on iphone :-)
19:33:32 Scott Shelhart: Social discourse is a dying art.
19:33:37 mrsdurff: exactly
19:33:45 mrsdurff: just how to find
19:33:46 matt montagne: @peggy...I like the way David approached that...definitely has merit
19:34:05 PeggyG: I thought so too--he shared some excellent resources
19:34:21 PeggyG: http://jakes.editme.com/educonlearnspace 
19:34:53 PeggyG: yes! information literacy!!
19:35:22 dawn: critical literacy is very important.
19:35:32 mrsdurff: yes it is
19:35:52 JohnS: So Long, And No Thanks for the Externalities: The Rational Rejection of Security Advice by Users: http://www.nspw.org/papers/2009/nspw2009-herley.pdf 
19:36:07 JohnS: Security Now 229: The Rational Rejection of Security Advice: http://twit.tv/sn229 
19:36:26 Scott Shelhart: Point taken. Would like to discuss it more sometime.
19:36:33 Gary: I remember a much early episode where Dave was very passionate about this - he is being consistent. Deja vu all over again!
19:36:59 Gary: earlier
19:37:00 matt montagne: well, good conversation...the iPad certainly brings up all sort of interesting issues...
19:37:26 mrsdurff: hey kim
19:37:36 kcaise: hi everyone
19:37:47 matt montagne: not to mention it makes the girls at my school squeamish when they hear "iPad" --
19:37:52 matt montagne: :-)
19:37:59 mrsdurff: ty for that
19:38:14 PeggyG: Hi Kim
19:38:28 kcaise: hi Peggy!
19:38:28 matt montagne: hey Kim
19:38:59 mrsdurff: bank of america. we want your money. com ?
19:39:16 dawn: Here is a great link on [b]critical literacy[/b] from Dr. Luke Alan. It is a video. http://www.curriculum.org/secretariat/may31.shtml 
19:39:22 kcaise: hey matt!
19:39:27 mrsdurff: ty dawn
19:40:28 PeggyG: Dawn-do you think the points in his webcast are still current since it was created in 2007? Just interested... so much is changing
19:41:45 dave: http://www.futuregov.net/articles/2010/jan/25/asian-schools-automate-att... 
19:41:55 matt montagne: J schink describes a problem that google chrome as an OS is set out to fix...chrome OS almost becomes a solid state computing component
19:42:02 PeggyG: that was such an interesting point John!! paying by minute for updates!
19:42:51 dawn: @peggy good question it is a good link..he talks about children needing to be raised with an awareness of media literacy, phone, websites...I think many educators are still realizing the BROAD definitions of literacy,,,still very useful
19:43:06 PeggyG: thanks! great to hear!!
19:43:28 Scott Shelhart: We use cards in k-12
19:43:38 mrsdurff: we use pins
19:43:42 dawn: Walt disney world swipes fingers too
19:44:09 Scott Shelhart: I like RFID.
19:44:19 JohnS: Yes, Dawn. They want to make sure you're not sharing your card.
19:44:37 Scott Shelhart: Automatic attendance with RFID
19:44:51 dawn: In the movies they scan eyeballs...good grief
19:45:12 mrsdurff: this is so factuory like
19:45:12 JohnS: Yes, Scott. But that's back to keeping track of where cards are, not where kids are.
19:45:13 PeggyG: what if you could track students who actively participate and contribute in class with those cards :-) more valuable than just knowing if their body is in the room...
19:45:14 mrsdurff: yup
19:45:15 Gary: Maybe we need an implanted chip in each student? :D
19:45:22 mrsdurff: dave is right
19:45:28 dawn: :D
19:45:32 sheila: Can you use fingers when dealing with peanut allergies in the lunch room?
19:45:45 Scott Shelhart: Good point Sheila
19:45:46 mrsdurff: now that might be useful
19:46:07 sheila: Who had the peanut butter stained hand 3 people beforehand?
19:46:15 PeggyG: funny Sheila!!
19:46:19 matt montagne: there is an iPhone app to track your kids...I can't imagine the underground economy that that would create with kids...I could see some innovative kid running a business where she/he would hang at the coffee shop all saturday night with a kid's phone so the kid could go hit the party
19:46:30 Scott Shelhart: Maybe we should teach them how to be honest and responsible........naw, that wont work
19:46:35 dave: @durff did you just agree with me again?
19:46:39 PeggyG: love it Scott!!!!
19:46:41 mrsdurff: when i attended school in Germany, we all went home for lunch. No worries over this
19:46:45 dawn: @sheila all PB is banned, and kiwi, and shellfish and and
19:46:50 matt montagne: @scott...exactly!
19:46:50 mrsdurff: yes dave i did
19:46:54 Gary: Similar to what kids do now to get around the "walled-gardens" that are set up on school networks.
19:47:08 sheila: So no lunch at lunch! :)
19:47:16 matt montagne: I'm going to install radar on my home for my kids...then I'm going to get some night vision goggles
19:47:18 mrsdurff: even better - ask the kids
19:47:22 dawn: :D
19:47:25 PeggyG: responsible digital citizenship!! so much better than blocking and tracking!
19:47:51 matt montagne: maybe I might get some heat imaging equipment as well...and aerial surveilance
19:47:54 PeggyG: funny Matt! that will change over time...
19:48:15 dawn: you should see how long it takes to take lunch orders! so many thins eat up time
19:48:25 dawn: *things
19:48:26 Gary: A trick for older teenagers - put on the home security system while they are out and you can go to sleep and know when they get home late.
19:48:40 PeggyG: yes--Stager talked about all of the dead time in schools at Educon!
19:48:43 mrsdurff: shhh!
19:49:01 mrsdurff: gary is giving away our tricks
19:49:23 matt montagne: @peggy...there isn't only dead time for students...teachers as welll...I just think of all that latent energy in the various meetings I'm in...wow
19:49:24 Gary: @durff - how many high school students are in this chat?
19:49:37 mrsdurff: hard to tell
19:49:52 mrsdurff: you might be one
19:49:54 PeggyG: absolutely!! dead time for all--even principals!
19:50:00 mrsdurff: i might be one
19:50:03 dawn: i was there in 2007....
19:50:06 mrsdurff: matt for sure
19:50:19 PeggyG: didn't know that rationale for Disney fingerprints--very interesting
19:50:57 Scott Shelhart: Liked the format. Good show
19:50:57 matt montagne: @durff peggy...I think I struggle with meetings now because I've been in these formats for too long...If I have something on my mind, I don't have to wait my turn to say it.
19:51:02 mrsdurff: don't go to Disney dave
19:51:07 PeggyG: how many people know they can refuse to have their fingerprint used??
19:51:31 Gary: @durff - a number of times over.
19:51:35 mrsdurff: isn't that annoying?
19:51:45 kcaise: good point sheila.
19:51:47 matt montagne: Dave...we gotta get you earthcasting to talk about the local growers network that you helped establish
19:51:48 PeggyG: good point Matt--I have a hard time holding my questions in f2f meetings too!!
19:51:57 matt montagne: Thanks for plug, JS...that was great...appreciated
19:52:32 PeggyG: everyone come to our next planning/brainstorming meeting on ETT Sunday Feb 7 right after Conversations
19:52:41 mrsdurff: tweet it
19:52:56 Scott Shelhart: What?
19:53:00 PeggyG: excellent John!! sounds great!
19:53:03 matt montagne: @peggy...yes, that is my struggle!
19:53:07 Gary: @JohnS - your twitter name?
19:53:12 matt montagne: good show you two!!!
19:53:18 matt montagne: nice conversation...good stuff!
19:53:20 JohnS: @schinker on twitter
19:53:21 PeggyG: babbling was fine and thought provoking
19:53:21 mrsdurff: clap clap clap
19:53:26 mrsdurff: we're not
19:53:28 Scott Shelhart: Good show
19:53:30 Connie Sitterley: We like the babbling
19:53:41 sheila: Thanks all!
19:53:44 mrsdurff: didn't he just move?
19:53:44 dawn: nice show,,, but no pictures tonight?
19:53:47 kcaise: nite all
19:53:49 Gary: Thanks again.
19:53:53 PeggyG: thanks all!
19:54:04 mrsdurff: see ya!
19:54:17 PeggyG: no I was listening to you!!!!
19:54:23 matt montagne: how was producer??
19:54:30 matt montagne: are you going to buy the pro, Dave??
19:54:35 matt montagne: do you think the pro is workth it??
19:54:44 matt montagne: what do you like about the pro versus the free??
19:54:47 matt montagne: more cameras??
19:55:04 matt montagne: I'm seriously thinking about producer as well...
19:55:12 matt montagne: wow...
19:56:17 matt montagne: that you are purchasing...it is expensive!!!
19:56:28 PeggyG: no WOW is next week
19:56:43 matt montagne: But I'm thinking about it too...so I look forward to your reviews of ustream broadcaster pro
19:57:22 matt montagne: I saw that, John...you have to cut the budget...what are you looking at first for cuts, John??
19:57:39 matt montagne: what is the low hanging fruit for district tech cuts??
19:57:45 PeggyG: there were some great special ed sessions at Educon this weekend
19:58:23 PeggyG: post show conversation is always interesting!! :-)
19:58:27 JohnS: @matt it's school-district-wide. Cutting bussing, increasing class sizes, laying off teachers, cutting gifted, cutting extracurriculars
19:58:33 matt montagne: john, this might make for a good topic for an upcoming show...tech department budget cuts...
19:58:48 PeggyG: yes I second that! everyone is dealing with it!
19:58:59 Scott Shelhart: Not a good time to be getting my teaching credentials, eh?
19:59:01 matt montagne: @js...wow, I don't like to hear those stories
19:59:12 matt montagne: I'd hire you scott
19:59:26 PeggyG: you'll be hired Scott!! no fears!
19:59:32 matt montagne: are you in the job market scott??
19:59:45 Scott Shelhart: Thanks Matt! Many people tell me as a male elementary teacher I'll have no trouble.
19:59:47 matt montagne: do you get your credential at the end of the year??
20:00:10 PeggyG: strike while the iron is hot, Matt!!! :-)
20:00:35 Scott Shelhart: MAYBE by the end of 2010, but being ready in the fall of 2011 is more realistic. Just started the first of my student teaching
20:00:35 matt montagne: exactly, Peggy!
20:00:38 JohnS: Actually, Matt, I've been VERY lucky in my dept. So I'm keeping my head down.
20:00:46 matt montagne: gotcha, Scott
20:00:55 Scott Shelhart: ...but I am open to relocating.
20:01:02 JohnS: I've only had 10% budget reductions, meaning delays in upgrades. I haven't lost any staff (though I also haven't added staff I've needed).
20:01:05 PeggyG: yes John--stay off the radar!
20:01:09 JohnS: A show about this would be very depressing.
20:01:49 PeggyG: no more depressing than the state of the economy in general--not good times
20:02:00 matt montagne: @js...well, you've been clearly smart about initiatives asw well...I haven't heard of you leadin gthe charge to buy blackboard, etc...you're being smart and choosing lower cost solutions
20:02:39 PeggyG: Yes Scott-keep your options open! California is very nice :-)
20:02:45 JohnS: yeah. I'm a big believer in collaboration & open source, so I try to use those solutions if I can. Almost all of our server sw is foss (email, file sharing, web/blog, lms, etc)
20:03:11 PeggyG: that sounds like job security to me John :-)
20:03:35 matt montagne: that adds up, John...I hope you the higher ups appreciate that-no fun tooting your own horn, but that is a significant savings right there...
20:03:47 JohnS: Perhaps. I'm not worried about the job, but I do think they recognize that cuts in tech staffing would be very detrimental to the school district.
20:04:14 JohnS: @matt I don't really talk about it. But I also don't ever pay for client access licenses for anything. That's really nice.
20:04:17 PeggyG: that's not insignificant! we have some districts that completely eliminated tech depts
20:05:12 matt montagne: alright, folks...gotta run...good conversation all.
20:05:16 PeggyG: night all
20:05:22 Scott Shelhart: night friends
20:05:44 JohnS: Thanks, everyone. Have a great week