(01:13:05) pgeorge: can someone copy that from the Google hangout into this chat?
(01:14:51) jeffsonstein: sorry, no invite so can't help
(01:17:00) pgeorge: I'm hearing everyone-just heard Howard
(01:17:06) pgeorge: there he is
(01:17:13) pgeorge: yes! hearing Howard now
(01:17:15) jeffsonstein: want to surprise your kids even more? get them to do the same search on Google logged on as themselves, and then repeat onhttp://duckduckgo.com/
(01:20:02) pgeorge: operating in a new way within the system?
(01:21:14) jeffsonstein: "system" emphasizes what can be measured/operationalized... how to do that w critical thinking? wish I knew
(01:23:21) jeffsonstein: they get to college & often *demand* a specific outcome rubric, often absolutely freaked by "explore this and report back", not sure how to "
(01:24:06) jeffsonstein: I like this suggested structure from Howard...
(01:25:13) pgeorge: I totally agree with you Jeff! I had the same experience teaching at the university
(01:26:11) jeffsonstein: gonna have to try Howards exploration structure suggestion, want them to explore rather than passing
(01:30:41) pgeorge: my students took the easy way out just doing what was "required" to pass the course :-(
(01:31:20) jeffsonstein: that is the "headset" I want to find a way around <grin/>
(01:32:52) jeffsonstein: you would not believe how some of my colleagues sneer at Wikipedia use... despite the reality that it is a really useful place to start from
(01:34:05) jeffsonstein: the "Talk" pages are very useful
(01:35:53) jeffsonstein: the MIT/Harvard online alliance is *really* confusing to some of our administrators ;^}
(01:35:56) pgeorge: I agree Jeff. They prefer the printed, hard copy encyclopedias (outdated). Go figure...
(01:37:41) jeffsonstein: it is what folks are used to: the crowd-sourced aspects can be hard for folks to adapt to when they are used to a closed validation system of validated-by-credential experts
(01:38:27) pgeorge: yes!
(01:39:46) jeffsonstein: I use the "Talk" pages at Wikipedia to show colleagues how well "peer-reviewed" most articles actually are... it sometimes works ;^}
(01:40:03) pgeorge: that's a great idea!!
(01:44:46) jeffsonstein: so you set up situations which force those issues out into view
(01:45:59) pgeorge: guess so--if you can handle the "chaos" and loss of control which is so hard for many teachers
(01:47:14) jeffsonstein: yup, that is a hard dance (but IMHO "worth it")... but then, if you are teaching about the Internet or Web then you are teaching about semi-controlled chaos anyway <grin/>
(01:48:30) pgeorge: absolutely! :-)
(01:49:14) jeffsonstein: great short piece (if you can get past the old-fashioned language) by Georg Simmel called "Conflict" (usually packaged with "The Web of Group Affiliation") and how it is central to society and relations
(01:50:22) pgeorge: how "old fashioned"? :-)
(01:50:52) Susan : is there a way to ask an audio question?
(01:50:56) jeffsonstein: late 1800s, early 1900s (translation to English from orig German)
(01:51:05) pgeorge: not unless you're in the Hangout
(01:51:12) Susan : ah ok peggy
(01:51:15) Susan : thanks
(01:51:38) jeffsonstein: thanks Howard!
(01:51:51) pgeorge: great conversation with Howard!! He's always interesting (and makes so much sense)
(01:52:09) jeffsonstein: +1
(01:52:32) pgeorge: that can be a problem with Livestream--public drop-ins
(01:53:21) jeffsonstein: good/bad - but then, this *is* a Chaotic Neutral environment ;^}
(01:54:25) jeffsonstein: don't get me started on the whole "gamify everything" stuff <mumbles maxOcurrs="unbounded"/>
(01:54:26) pgeorge: exactly...
(01:55:01) pgeorge: thanks Howard
(01:55:29) pgeorge: always learn something from Howard!
(01:55:31) jeffsonstein: night
(01:55:40) pgeorge: night
(01:55:52) jeffsonstein: tnx folks, g'night / g'day to y'all