It’s Elementary #31, Self Directed Learning
In this international edition of It’s Elementary we are joined by Dennis Newson and Nick Noakes session facilitators for EVOVWLL 2009 and Vance Stevens the original webhead. We attempted to define what self directed learning is and how it has changed over time. We talked about the importance of learning in a network and building our own Personal Learning Environment (PLE or PLN). We talked about the structure of the EVO sessions and the role of the facilitators. We evaluated the different tools used in the course such as the wikis, nings and the like. We concluded that it really IS about the people and how we connect in these online spaces. Check out all the great links in the text chat
20:29:48 Osnacaantab : Good morning!
20:42:32 nick : hi Dennis ...
20:42:49 Osnacaantab : Hi.
20:43:02 nick : 3am your time?
20:43:54 Osnacaantab : 02:45
20:44:19 nick : yikes :(
20:44:51 nick : Ho Alice, phillip
20:50:47 Vance : hello
20:51:09 nick : hiya Vance
20:51:44 Vance : are we in SL as well for this one?
20:53:18 Osnacaantab : I don't think so, Vance.
20:53:32 nick : not that I know of
20:53:55 Vance : fine I won't stretch my resources
20:54:06 Alicemercer : pls check ustream?
20:55:31 nick : can hear you on ustream Alice
20:56:02 nick : and singing
20:56:07 Alicemercer : Is there an echo ?
20:56:16 nick : no
20:56:49 nick : but can only hear you
20:57:28 nick : and not sure how I am supposed to come in to vice
20:57:32 nick : voice
21:00:08 Vance : hi folks
21:00:51 nick : Vance, Jose asked me to be a part of this ... but was not given any details to come in
21:01:08 nick : up to you folks ..
21:01:12 Vance : who was not given details, you or me?
21:01:19 Vance : or him I mean
21:01:22 nick : me
21:01:25 Vance : sorry, early
21:01:51 nick : yep
21:04:55 ds : only getting audio from Alice here
21:05:08 tjtech : no audio here
21:05:55 Edith : no audio?
21:05:59 ds : hey Alec
21:06:06 Edith : we are on ustream
21:06:11 PeggyG : I'm hearing Alice's voice
21:06:19 Edith : do you hear everyone?
21:06:37 ds : better now on p/u of voices
21:06:39 Alicemercer : Hear everyone now
21:06:43 Alicemercer : ?
21:06:47 Edith : Edith = durff's other computer
21:06:49 PeggyG : voices in the background only
21:06:52 ds : yes better Alice
21:07:06 Alicemercer : good to go ds?
21:07:25 ds : @Alice sounds good
21:07:48 PeggyG : very soft voices but can hear allvolume up all the way
21:08:14 ds : yes, not ideal but servicable I thinkmay take some time in the editing room postshow
21:08:31 ds : but hearing Jose ok here now
21:09:03 Edith : nick noakes talking
21:09:14 Edith : hear Nick?
21:09:14 Vance : no Dennis is talking
21:09:17 nick : dennis
21:09:28 JoseRodriguez : Hi everyone... just getting in
21:09:30 Alicemercer : better?
21:09:42 Edith : ok then the tea drinker
21:09:54 Edith : he needs to drink coffee
21:09:57 Vance : good analogy
21:09:59 nick : lol
21:10:05 JoseRodriguez : agree.
21:10:15 Alicemercer : is volume better
21:10:15 Vance : yep
21:10:18 nick : yeah remember progammed learning Dennis
21:10:20 ds : better in terms of volume, but Alice your typing will be REALLY loud now
21:10:26 kapil : hi , can any one drop the audio link here ? edtech audio stream is not working
21:10:28 Edith : do you remember programmed learning?
21:10:31 Alicemercer : sorry avoiding it
21:10:38 nick : ustream link
21:10:38 Alicemercer : ustream box
21:10:47 nick : on right hadn side
21:10:49 JoseRodriguez : only on ustream tonight
21:11:11 ds : ETT A and B now running
21:11:23 JoseRodriguez : yeah my wife has been taking classes on language.... verbs/ prepositions/ etc
21:11:27 Alicemercer : huh? is that you Jose?
21:11:41 ds : it's me Alice, quit typing :)
21:11:55 Alicemercer : k
21:12:17 Edith : hi jackie
21:12:26 Alicemercer : bing very quiet
21:12:31 ds : @Alice lol
21:12:39 ds : didn't hear that at all :)
21:12:42 JoseRodriguez : yeah.... with networks...
21:12:54 JoseRodriguez : PLN
21:13:04 Edith : this new Skype window takes up too much room on my screen
21:13:08 Vance : http://advanceducation.blogspot.com/2009/02/lifelonglearnerautonomymeets...
21:13:25 Edith : excellent google jockeying
21:13:37 ds : @Edith the new skype is giving me fits toonew interface taking too much "getting usedto" for my liking
21:13:50 Edith : doug i'm durff
21:13:54 nick : metaphor?
21:13:59 Edith : on the other computer
21:14:02 PeggyG : are you talking about the new Mac Skype beta?
21:14:09 nick : they were in Hong Kong about that time at CityU
21:14:19 nick : oops nope .. 90's in HK
21:14:21 Alicemercer : win skype had new ve.
21:14:25 Alicemercer : ver
21:14:43 ds : @Edith/Durff: gotme, didn't konw you were in Guest456 mode....
21:15:03 Edith : i have to keep the computers straight
21:15:04 PeggyG : oh okI'm liking the new Mac beta for skype
21:15:12 ds : gotcha, good idea
21:15:36 JoseRodriguez : I like the berry bush.. but I pick one berry at a time :)
21:15:59 PeggyG : great Jose! one berry at a time makes a lot of sense!
21:16:00 Edith : learning is a berry bush
21:16:08 Edith : now i'm hungry
21:16:24 ds : love the concept
21:16:29 Edith : i like boysenberries
21:16:37 nick : so if you pick berries ... how do you kkep the connections of ideas across distrubted knowledge
21:16:49 nick : excuse typos
21:16:54 Edith : hey lorna
21:16:59 Lorna : Hi
21:17:01 ds : @nick certainly, mine too plse
21:17:07 Edith : true nick
21:17:18 Edith : then they are no longer connected
21:17:22 JoseRodriguez : The reflection piece is key
21:17:33 PeggyG : I like it when these great resources come to me via RSS feeds and I can pick/choose from those.
21:17:43 Edith : nick what metaphor would you use?
21:17:46 nick : yes ... but more than reflection ... nec. but not sufficient
21:18:05 nick : neural networks
21:18:14 JoseRodriguez : it all sounds ecclectc
21:18:16 nick : webs of connection and knowledge
21:18:19 JoseRodriguez : ecclectic..
21:18:34 nick : coonection to people and ideas
21:18:53 Edith : Connectivism course
21:19:05 JoseRodriguez : yep... connectivism.. course... coming for a second round in 2009
21:19:09 nick : who is our in our job vance?
21:19:12 ds : http://advanceducation.blogspot.com/2009/02/lifelonglearnerautonomymeets...
21:20:11 Vance : http://goodbyegutenberg.pbwiki.com/Events_Schedule
21:20:35 Edith : hi barb
21:20:37 Alicemercer : that would b very german, no?
21:20:46 Edith : dock
21:20:50 Edith : doch
21:20:50 PeggyG : I think the Images4Education course on EVO was an outstanding model for learning. Excellent facilitation and structure!
21:20:54 Vance : our in our job is we facilitators
21:21:00 barbsaka : hi
21:21:09 nick : hmm then not sure I agree with George ..
21:21:13 Edith : barb do you have sound?
21:21:33 Vance : bring it up in the voice chat :)
21:21:43 barbsaka : yes, I've got it
21:21:46 PeggyG : you learn so much from the other participants and it's so helpful to be able to learn it at your own pace
21:21:49 barbsaka : thx for asking
21:22:15 nick : .. but maybe I'm not clear exactly what he means ... I see our job as providing a loose framework ...
21:22:34 ds : it's a real challenge to strike that balance
21:22:44 ds : between "loosely formed" and structure
21:23:03 ds : esp for the "selfdirected" learner
21:23:06 Vance : isn't a 'loose framework' same as coherence?
21:23:33 ds : @Vance I think the learning happens at the edge of coherence
21:24:03 nick : that's interesting doug
21:24:14 ds : when the learners surprise 'selves, andideallythe educator/facilitator as well
21:24:24 Vance : the word was from George Siemens whose 'thing' is connectivism
21:24:26 Edith : ning social networking in facilitating online pd?
21:24:43 Vance : so I think he must have meant it in a connectivist way
21:25:06 barbsaka : I liked the connectiveness of the ning
21:25:18 ds : walled garden re ningand all that entails
21:25:41 barbsaka : it was convenient to have comments, events, blogs in one location
21:25:49 nick : yes although you can make it all public doug .. so maybe doesnt have to be walled garden
21:25:51 barbsaka : but, I often forgot to look at the wiki :)
21:26:07 nick : hiya barb
21:26:14 Alicemercer : did you try to get feed from wiki barb?
21:26:28 Edith : nings are good as protected communities for elementary
21:26:32 barbsaka : no :)
21:26:43 nick : the wiki hardly changed ... we only updated participants there
21:26:44 JoseRodriguez : oh yeah... rss can be king
21:26:47 Alicemercer : No, you can't use Ning in elementary it violate TOS
21:26:49 PeggyG : on Ning you can choose to follow certain conversations so you don't miss things that are important to you.
21:27:08 barbsaka : I think she means elementary skill, not age
21:27:09 Alicemercer : for a BIG group, ning is better (200500)
21:27:15 ds : @Vance both great points re "new" and rss
21:27:16 Alicemercer : oh yeah
21:27:31 PeggyG : the RSS feeds are really helpful!
21:28:58 barbsaka : I'm just getting familiar with all of it, but I can see advantages of rss
21:29:06 ds : however, I found "new" didn't go back far enough for me, if I'd been away for a day or soneed more familiarity with ning, but not sure I want to invest the time....
21:29:12 kapil : ning is basically a social network platform , not designed as a learning mgmt system as moodle
21:29:26 Vance : true, new was just there, it helped
21:29:38 Vance : not comprehensive
21:29:38 Edith : i agree kapil
21:29:54 ds : and your RSS idea is the key, I think Vance
21:30:40 nick : can I jump in when there is a space?
21:30:43 barbsaka : Seemed like participants having trouble editing our wiki (BaW) caused a lot of fixingit headaches for facilitators
21:30:50 Edith : jump nick
21:30:55 Edith : hi matt
21:30:58 ds : hey @matt
21:31:12 nick : hehe
21:31:25 Edith : hi dennis
21:31:30 JoseRodriguez : Hey dennis
21:31:30 matt montagne : hey DS et all
21:31:50 barbsaka : For me, the Ning reinforced the social community of the session
21:32:01 Alicemercer : hows the typing sounds ds?
21:32:14 Edith : which session were you in barb?
21:32:33 barbsaka : twoBaW and VW&LL
21:32:46 barbsaka : BaW was mostly yahoo groups & wiki
21:32:58 barbsaka : VWLL was Ning, Wiki, and Second Life
21:33:14 barbsaka : Obviously, I missed out on most of the wiki for VWLL :)
21:33:41 ds : we used ning and wiki in evo2009pdi and flickr and youtube
21:33:41 barbsaka : I loved the wiki for BaW, but it did seem to add a lot of work for mods
21:33:56 kapil : ning:social network , moodle : lms , drupal : content mgmt system , yahoo groups : forum > all are basically created for different purpose. its how we use them for learning
21:34:10 Edith : did you know the webheads have a theme song?
21:34:20 Alicemercer : some of those have elements of the other
21:34:33 Alicemercer : forums are in ning, moodle, etc.
21:34:34 kapil : yes , a lot of features overlap
21:34:56 ds : @kapil to what degree to "personal learning networks" transcend across the tools, do you think?
21:34:59 barbsaka : Also, getting requests to "make friends" on Ning makes you feel loved.....
21:35:07 Alicemercer : hahaha
21:35:10 ds : @barb :)
21:35:21 Alicemercer : love that!
21:35:21 Edith : them song=http://webheadstheme.wikispaces.com/
21:35:29 barbsaka : which is nice when you're new and struggling with the beginning stuff
21:35:36 Alicemercer : I'll share that with Steve Hargadon next week
21:35:43 Vance : got to check and see everyone is up here, brb ...
21:35:48 kapil : but , for lot of learners , a lot of features in one single system like ning somehow overwhelm
21:35:49 barbsaka : Oh, thanks for the themeI missed the live version on BaW and have really regretted it
21:36:04 Edith : wait time is a good thing
21:36:17 Vance : ok, back
21:37:20 Edith : and you left?
21:38:55 nick : are our coommunities/networkds having greater overlap .. (Vance's Venn diagram) ... or in fact converging?
21:38:58 Vance : just for a moment
21:39:13 Vance : definitely converging
21:39:29 ds : @Edith has spoken
21:39:32 nick : so what does mean for SDL/PLNs?
21:39:35 Vance : sometimes drifting
21:39:40 Edith : indeed
21:39:44 ds : lol
21:39:46 Vance : tectonic communities
21:39:52 nick : lol
21:39:57 Edith : tect who?
21:41:23 ds : hi Susan, welcome audio links on right side of page
21:41:25 Edith : hi susan
21:41:28 Alicemercer : tectonic, or teutonic?
21:41:33 ds : the former
21:41:37 ds : slow moving
21:42:10 Edith : carla ain't slow moving
21:42:34 susan cutajar : hello everyone, glad to be visiting again
21:42:36 JoseRodriguez : My session was awesome and it gave me that tools to start in Second Life
21:42:56 Edith : SL is great
21:43:02 JoseRodriguez : I like ETT Folk
21:43:15 JoseRodriguez : and others of course
21:43:47 barbsaka : From both sessions, there was enough new material to keep me busy for months...maybe years :) Really AMAZING! Only wish I had more hours each day
21:44:02 JoseRodriguez : so if we are still riding the first wave how do we get the second wave... third.... etc. going?
21:44:28 JoseRodriguez : She is just more assertive...
21:45:04 Edith : community building
21:45:05 Vance : waves come in sets
21:45:19 JoseRodriguez : ah.. sets. I like that
21:45:23 ds : another great visual
21:45:30 Edith : how do we build our communities...?
21:45:36 barbsaka : Seems to grow every year, as more people become aware, and cost of powerful computers comes down
21:45:47 JoseRodriguez : bulid in value with what we got.
21:45:57 ds : @barb and cell phones are the next frontier, I think
21:46:08 Vance : clap clap
21:46:32 barbsaka : they are here (Japan), where computers are often a piece of pretty furniture, but people access web on phone every day
21:46:39 nick : yes .. its 3am for Dennis
21:47:14 ds : well done Dennis, definitely above and beyond the call of duty
21:47:18 Edith : this new Skype is too fun
21:47:22 Vance : how do we exploit that Barbsaka?
21:47:24 nick : :)
21:47:36 barbsaka : still working on it :)
21:47:58 Edith : why on the phone?
21:48:16 barbsaka : because more young people use their phones for internet than laptops
21:48:22 nick : we build communities by making people get up to speed with community, domain and practice quickly
21:48:23 barbsaka : at least here in Asia
21:48:39 ds : accessiblitylot easier for many to get a phoneand they come w a network attached
21:48:47 nick : and facilitating transition from periphery to core and back out again
21:49:22 nick : yay Dennis
21:50:49 nick : sure can do for a while
21:50:59 nick : lol
21:51:17 ds : might as well stay up now Dennis :)
21:51:27 ds : and good morning
21:51:34 Osnacaantabd : Bye
21:51:43 nick : bye Dennis
21:51:49 ds : great showthanks to all
21:51:52 Vance : http://www.mamk.net/?p=1856
21:52:11 Edith : chat room threw me out
21:52:16 Edith : the other me
21:52:43 nick : Assoc for Advancement of Computers in Education I think
21:52:45 Edith : hi jan
21:52:48 barbsaka : that's what I've seen....my own phone is ONLY a phone :)
21:52:49 ds : does everyone use mobile web on their phones? provided you have a phone, of course....
21:52:56 Alicemercer : AACE Association for the Advancement of Computing in Education AACE serves the profession with international conferences, high quality publications,
21:52:59 jan smith : Hi all!
21:53:12 Alicemercer : http://www.aace.org/
21:53:18 nick : HK is similar to Japan
21:53:25 barbsaka : I imagine so
21:53:35 Edith : hi james
21:53:53 Eurominuteman : hi
21:53:58 barbsaka : In the 3rd edition of my children's textbook, we included a (IMO) very cool CD Rom
21:53:59 Vance : http://goodbyegutenberg.pbwiki.com/Events_Schedule
21:54:04 Eurominuteman : yawn
21:54:06 barbsaka : However, few use it
21:54:21 Edith : i don't use mobile web on my phone
21:54:28 Edith : phone is too old
21:54:48 barbsaka : The kids tell me that their parents don't know how to play disks on the family computer
21:54:49 ds : I had a buddy of mine, a REAL ludditeextolling the virtures of the iPhone yesterdaythe power of marketing
21:55:10 ds : virtues too
21:55:20 barbsaka : BUT, they spend so much time in transit that even kids are quite good at browsing the web on phones
21:55:39 barbsaka : When I wanted to purchase a phone that only made calls, I got the strangest looks from the clerk
21:56:01 ds : @barb too funny, but doesn't surprise me
21:57:01 barbsaka : Barbara has to hook up headphones
21:57:11 barbsaka : Is there a skype number to call in on?
21:57:31 nick : but kids are different .. they will expect mobile web ...
21:58:06 ds : opera mini is a great browser: I've had good success with it on blackberry
21:58:09 nick : the I can do everything is around what we do ... not what kids/teens do on mobiles nec.
21:58:15 barbsaka : or how do I connect?
21:58:26 barbsaka : barbara.sakamoto
21:58:28 ds : @barb Alice will call you
21:58:42 barbsaka : ok
21:59:36 barbsaka : oops wrong button
22:00:05 nick : hey barb
22:01:10 nick : bye all ... take care
22:01:34 Edith : take care nick
22:01:50 ds : cya nick
22:01:55 ds : missed him
22:02:02 ds : hey James
22:02:07 Edith : you scared him away
22:02:15 Eurominuteman : hi ds
22:02:25 jan smith : gtgmeeting my daughter to test yugma on skype :)
22:03:07 James Sigler : Hey everybody
22:03:18 ds : hey James
22:03:40 Eurominuteman : 4am, i'm not awake
22:04:04 Eurominuteman : my ghost is here
22:04:10 Vance : http://www.cellphonesinlearning.com/
22:04:11 James Sigler : Just got back from watching school board meeting, so missed the show :(
22:05:02 Edith : well pooh
22:06:35 Vance : https://k12online07presenters.wikispaces.com/Liz+Kolb
22:06:36 kapil : just posted some learnings on my blog for "its elementary 24 feb" pretty rough right now, http://www.kapilbhatia.com/2009/02/23/itselementary24feb2009somepersonal...
22:06:39 Edith : nite
22:06:40 Vance : great preso
22:07:07 ds : oops
22:07:33 Vance : bye bye
22:07:42 ds : take care all
22:07:50 ds : @Alice what happened?
22:08:12 James Sigler : nice seeing ya'll
22:08:47 ds : you too, take care all and see you again soon
22:29:10 Alicemercer : You still there ds?
22:29:13 Alicemercer : I went to eat dinner
22:29:18 Alicemercer : the show was over