Teachers Teaching Teachers #178 - MemCatch and Zotero: Tools to Cure Our Cartesian Hangover - 12.09.09

Post-Show description: 

On this podcast we continue our inquiry into I-Search, research, and social bookmarking tools.

Terry Elliot and Wendy Drexler joined us us to discuss Zotero.


Keith Borne and Peter Sabbagh, from MemCatch also joined us in on our discussion about emerging technologies in the social knowledge area.

We were also joined by Fred Haas, an English teacher and Tech Liaison for the Boston Writing Project. If you listen closely to what Fred has to say, you'll find out what the title of this podcast is referring to.

Perhaps you use tools such as MemCatch, Zotero, Diigo and delicious. Perhaps you have also begun to use these tools with your students. If so, we think you'll enjoy this conversation about how we do research now.



Click Read more to see a transcript of a chat that was happening during the webcast.

20:44:09 Paul Allison: Hi.
20:44:23 Paul Allison: Susan, did you get my email with Skype ID's?
20:45:09 SusanEttenheim: hi brb
20:45:14 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/275193347/social-knowledge-tools-on-t...
20:48:43 Wendy Drexler: Hi everyone.
20:50:43 Paul Allison: Hi Wendy.
20:51:00 Paul Allison: SusanEttenheim is getting it together.
20:51:11 Paul Allison: We'll start in about 10 minutes.
20:52:01 Wendy Drexler: Hey there.  Ready when you are.  :-)
20:52:30 Paul Allison: Great
20:53:29 Paul Allison: If you have links to share... one way is to pull them onto toolbar now, then you can drag them into the chat room later.
20:58:35 Keith Borne: hello!
21:06:02 Paul Allison: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/post/275193347/social-knowledge-tools-on-t...
21:06:12 Wendy Drexler: I would love to go to one of those sessions.
21:09:44 SusanEttenheim: hi peggy - welcome!
21:09:55 SusanEttenheim: Keith Borne and  Peter Sabbagh, from Memcatch will be join in on our discussion about emerging technologies in the social knowledge area.
21:10:06 SusanEttenheim: hi tim welcome!
21:10:07 tim: hi
21:10:11 tim: hey susan
21:10:13 PeggyG: Hi-audio is coming through great
21:10:14 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:10:19 tim: me?
21:10:21 Wendy Drexler: Looks cool.
21:10:28 SusanEttenheim: this is Keith from Memcatch
21:10:32 SusanEttenheim: yes :)
21:10:43 tim: I'm in Wellington, NZ - teach primary
21:10:53 SusanEttenheim: yes - I remember! welcome!
21:10:54 PeggyG: I'm a retired elementary principal and university pre-service teacher education instructor in Phoenix AZ
21:11:20 SusanEttenheim: welcome Peggy!
21:11:28 SusanEttenheim: has anyone used Memcatch ?
21:11:39 PeggyG: I'm also a huge fan of TTT and learn so much every week!
21:11:51 PeggyG: Memcatch is new to me--eager to learn about it
21:11:52 SusanEttenheim: awww peggy!
21:11:57 SusanEttenheim: hi deb - welcome!
21:12:05 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:12:10 PeggyG: Hi Deb! so glad you could join us!
21:12:13 tim: I've not used memcatch - use delicious personally - but haven't gotten into diigo yet - see it used a lot on twitter feeds
21:12:29 SusanEttenheim: memcatch on twitter tim?
21:12:42 deb boatwright: No audio here just chat?
21:12:44 SusanEttenheim: interesting... how about zotero? who has used that?
21:12:56 PeggyG: I've used zotero and love it
21:12:56 SusanEttenheim: click on the volume icon - edtechtalk A!
21:13:24 SusanEttenheim: how does it compare to delicious peggy?
21:13:35 SusanEttenheim: can you hear us now deb?
21:13:46 tim: i see diigo links on a lot of the people I follow on twitter - Clif Mims in particular
21:13:51 PeggyG: I don't use zotero for social bookmarking. I use Diigo for that
21:14:17 tim: I'm not really doing any social bookmarking for my teaching - only personal use at present
21:15:25 PeggyG: http://www.zotero.org/
21:15:41 SusanEttenheim: thank you peggy!
21:16:12 deb boatwright: not able to hear I will try another time.
21:16:34 PeggyG: it's very easy to install zotero in Firefox--one click :-)
21:16:42 SusanEttenheim: oh deb - we'll help you! tell us what you're doing
21:16:53 SusanEttenheim: hi vbek welcome! where and what do you teach?
21:17:20 Keith Bourne: zotero is a great tool, open source and extensible, MemCatch is looking at integration
21:18:06 PeggyG: http://psychologyoffacebook.com/  this is a great bjfogg resource! The Psychology of Facebook :-)
21:18:14 SusanEttenheim: hi librarylil welcome!
21:18:21 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:18:36 tim: zotero beta 2 being installed now
21:18:36 vbek: Hello - I amd eh Dir of Integrated Technology, UpIsland Region - Martha's Vineyard Public Schools - am I too late?
21:19:05 PeggyG: how risky is the new beta version of zotero? do you recommend it?
21:19:06 SusanEttenheim: not at all vbek we're just getting started!
21:19:19 vbek: great - thank you
21:19:43 SusanEttenheim: Terry Elliot and Wendy Drexler will be with us to discuss Zotero. Keith Borne and  Peter Sabbagh, from Memcatch will be join in on our discussion about emerging technologies in the social knowledge area.
21:19:44 Wendy Drexler: I'm using the BETA version with no problems at all so far.  (Knock wood.)
21:20:25 SusanEttenheim: hi eaktennis welcome!
21:20:27 vbek: Pardon the typos. :/  Travelling at the speed of stupidity
21:20:28 SusanEttenheim: hi tellio
21:20:30 SusanEttenheim: welcome!
21:20:30 Fred Haas: What if you download a pdf from the database and have it on a hard drive. Can you then attah it and make it available?
21:20:34 librarylil: Elementary library. I'd like to lurk for a bit, b/c I don't think I'm qualified to contribute much to this discussion.
21:20:40 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you both teach?
21:20:49 PeggyG: that's really funny vbek!! :-)
21:20:56 tellio: Fred, yes
21:21:24 librarylil: PreK-5 library. I used to work with Teb, who told me about this forum some time ago...thought I'd check it out.
21:21:25 SusanEttenheim: library - you're welcome to lurk but this is just an open conversation! you can join in anytime!
21:21:27 Fred Haas: @tellio that's what I thought, but I haven't tried the sharing features yet.
21:21:30 PeggyG: http://memcatch.com/
21:21:31 [email protected]: Hello, I teach Advanced Math and Gifted Support Writing in grades 3,4,5 in Pennsylvania
21:22:02 SusanEttenheim: ohhhh please say hi to Teb if you talk to him!!
21:22:05 librarylil: thank you for the welcome. 
21:22:16 Paul Allison: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dHdOTVhMVUI4NUlkS...
21:22:24 Wendy Drexler: Excellent point!
21:22:35 librarylil: Yes, I will.  I believe we met in my library at the NYCSLA mtg
21:22:35 SusanEttenheim: welcomeeaktennis
21:22:36 Wendy Drexler: I agree!
21:24:58 Keith Bourne:  mobile environments is big in international
21:25:41 Fred Haas: There are at least a few high school teachers using Zotero to be sure. It is a subject that has come up a few times on the English Companion Ning.
21:25:57 PeggyG: that's a hard survey to complete--what kind of information do you want in each of those boxes? pros? cons? application/use in classrooms?
21:26:01 SusanEttenheim: oh of course librarylil welcome!
21:26:28 tim: agree on the cellphone/mobile angle. Cellphones/iphones are far more available than netbooks or laptops
21:26:59 tim: particularly in asian countries
21:27:00 PeggyG: the K12 Online Conference has a very strong focus on going global this year!! "Bridging the Divide" :-)
21:27:22 SusanEttenheim: yes I saw that Peggy!
21:27:32 tim: Peggy - this year's K12 has a fantastic theme - I'm really enjoying the discussions and presentations
21:27:56 SusanEttenheim: is there a podcast feed for the whole k12?
21:27:57 PeggyG: Liz Kolb is going to be our guest presenter on Classroom 2.0 LIVE this Saturday talking about mobile technology and cell phones for learning
21:28:40 SusanEttenheim: that sounds good peggy!
21:28:43 PeggyG: I'm thrilled and impressed with the K12 online presentations I have seen so far!!
21:29:05 PeggyG: yes Susan-there is a podcast feed and video feed for the conference
21:29:18 SusanEttenheim: I'm looking forward to catching up via podcasts with k12!
21:29:53 [email protected]: I have to check out the K12 online presentations, too.
21:29:55 SusanEttenheim: welcome back tim!
21:30:06 SusanEttenheim: brb
21:30:16 Wendy Drexler: We're already doing networked learning and personal learning environments with 7th graders.
21:30:37 tim: susan. rss feeds for k12: k12onlineconference.org/?page_id=147
21:30:41 Wendy Drexler: Digital literacy is critical! 
21:30:48 PeggyG: thanks tim-- you beat me!!
21:30:52 [email protected]: thanks
21:31:00 tim: hearing all this is frustrating - my school is still very paper based
21:31:08 PeggyG: you can subscribe to the K12 online presentations in iTunes :-)
21:31:11 tim: computers are used for publishing
21:31:17 tim: not connecting
21:31:20 SusanEttenheim: welcome elemtech!
21:31:26 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:31:29 Wendy Drexler: @tim  one step at a time.  Don't get discouraged.
21:31:53 PeggyG: @tim--unfortunately that's true for lots of schools--great point about publishing and not connecting
21:32:07 elem-tech-tchr: teach in Farwell MI 1-4 tech
21:32:24 tim: we have all of the hardware - 20 Macbooks, computers in every room. but staff and senior leaders don't see value in the digital workflow - so even getting email to be used is a battle
21:32:25 SusanEttenheim: welcome!
21:32:41 elem-tech-tchr: thanks
21:33:22 PeggyG: there is no site that doesn't mess up from time to time--and they also disappear like Etherpad!
21:33:51 librarylil: need to go now, but would love to catch up again!
21:33:55 PeggyG: tagging is such a big issue!
21:33:55 Wendy Drexler: @Tim I feel your pain and have experienced some of the same attitudes at the school where I'm doing my research.  But, one teacher is making a huge difference there.
21:34:28 PeggyG: I really like the way Diigo remembers your group tags so you have some common language
21:34:35 elem-tech-tchr: tim, I am very lucky I have a supporting principal(loosing her at end of year though) and recently the staff are starting to come on board.  It is the direct opposite in the middle school-principal didn't even know they had a tech grant this year
21:35:07 PeggyG: very interesting dilemma @alem-tech-tchr!
21:35:41 tellio: I have been finding ways to use Diigo and zotero together
21:35:49 PeggyG: @Wendy--such an important point--even just ONE teacher can make a difference in modeling the value of these tools to help them do what they want to do
21:35:52 tim: @Wendy.hardest bit is hearing the principal jokingly refer to his ICT ability as "learned helplessness" - as he asks me to build a powerpoint for his presentation to parents
21:36:06 [email protected]: I have a similar issue, a Principal who is afraid to let me set up a blog or to set up my students with email addresses
21:36:27 PeggyG: hard not to "enable" people like those "learned helplessness"
21:36:57 Keith Bourne: welcome to the info age
21:37:31 PeggyG: it's so hard to resist rescuing them and yet it's so important that they move beyond that helplessness
21:37:37 Gail Desler: Finding resources is the easy part; evaluating them is a whole other level
21:37:51 carolteach4: Our principal recently went to China; he was all set to blog, but the blogging website was blocked. He did use email and Skype to keep in touch. Also, he and the art teacher who accompanied him are building a terrific travelogue documenting their trip using PhotoStory3. I am so pleased with the way he embraces technology.
21:38:06 SusanEttenheim: hi carol! hi crg!
21:38:09 PeggyG: you are so lucky @carolteach4!!
21:38:46 carolteach4: Hi, Susan. Just stopped in for a few minutes. Been very busy and exhausted, but a snow day gave me time to recoup.
21:39:02 tim: @carol - that's superb
21:39:10 SusanEttenheim: so glad you could come by tonight!
21:39:21 Gail Desler: HI Susan
21:39:21 PeggyG: instructors need to provide ways for students to feel like everyone in their group is expected to collaborate equally and not one student having the full responsibility--that's often the complaint about group/collaborative projects
21:39:55 Gail Desler: @PeggyG - and that's an art - but you are right, so important.
21:40:12 PeggyG: it's easy to monitor electronically but teachers need to follow up
21:40:34 carolteach4: We have a few more teachers encouraging collaborative projects at our school now we have Google Apps for education and Moodle are in place. It's slow but it's growing.
21:40:54 Gail Desler: Mendolay (sp ?)?
21:41:38 PeggyG: @carolteach4--do you find it easy to monitor student contributions with Google apps?
21:41:46 Wendy Drexler: I agree with that.
21:41:56 tellio: Mendeley
21:42:36 tim: http://tinyurl.com/yg2krn3
21:42:52 tim: The horses are out of the barn!  :-)
21:42:52 PeggyG: the Google search curriculum does a great job of teaching research skills
21:43:09 carolteach4: I am about half way through Lawrence Lessig's latest talk on copyright and free culture delivered in November 2009. It is really a great talk. He is saying that we must demand our rights to information for education and science. It's on iTunes for free if you search on Lessig. It's really worth a listen.
21:43:34 PeggyG: thanks for that tip about Lessig--I'll check it out
21:44:23 PeggyG: I have been impressed with the way Michael Wesh uses Netvibes to aggregate his student research from Diigo feeds--modeling great collaboration
21:44:36 carolteach4: @Peggy. I have to admit I don't spend a lot of time monitoring. I am kind of in the trust mode. It's been very busy at school, and my lab has been booked every period of the day.
21:44:57 Gail Desler: @PeggyG Do you have a link to his Netvibes?
21:45:04 PeggyG: yes-just a sec
21:45:18 Gail Desler: @PeggyG  - Lessing's page?
21:45:22 Wendy Drexler: @Peggy  I used Wesch's model with my college students.  Love it.  http://www.netvibes.com/eme5432#Professional_Learning_Community
21:45:35 Gail Desler: Thanks, Wendy
21:45:49 Wendy Drexler: That was mine.  Let me grab Wesch's
21:46:05 tellio: I used Wesch's question:  what are students like today?
21:46:07 PeggyG: http://www.netvibes.com/wesch
21:46:19 PeggyG: I spelled his name wrong earlier
21:46:20 SusanEttenheim: hi gail! welcome!
21:46:26 Wendy Drexler: Thanks, Peggy.
21:46:27 Gail Desler: Hi Susan
21:46:36 PeggyG: His approach is incredible!!
21:46:49 Gail Desler: @PeggyG - love wesch's stuff - but hadn't seen his netvibes page
21:46:54 Wendy Drexler: @Peggy  He is definitely one of my role models.
21:47:12 Wendy Drexler: Love that quote.  The smartest person in the room is the room.
21:47:21 PeggyG: I heard him do a presentation about his Netvibes site--think it was at FETC09 Virtual Conference but not sure
21:47:38 PeggyG: that's a great quote!
21:48:29 Wendy Drexler: Here is Wesch's YouTube Channel.  His presentations are all posted.  http://www.youtube.com/user/mwesch#p/c/D3D9C7D4F13D2442
21:48:39 PeggyG: that question isn't on my mind! :-) why not delicious??
21:48:54 SusanEttenheim: 10 mi
21:48:58 SusanEttenheim: min
21:49:01 PeggyG: that's a great link Wendy! I subscribe to his channel
21:49:03 Keith Bourne: http://memcatch.com/bin/bit/2141/out-open-some-scientists-sharing-result...
21:49:05 Paul Allison: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=twNMXLUB85IdJVMQHMVfOIA&output=html
21:49:11 carolteach4: @Wendy - Thanks. I was looking for the link on iTunes, but I couldn't copy it.
21:49:19 Paul Allison: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dHdOTVhMVUI4NUlkS...
21:49:23 Gail Desler: Why not just Delicious? - thanks for asking that question, Paul
21:49:40 PeggyG: that's one of the drawbacks of this chat room--can't copy/paste but can click/drag into the chat window
21:49:52 tim: One of the things I took from my mediocre GTD practise is to choose the few things - that work for you - and do them well.
21:50:22 tim: I'm getting my head around delicious still.
21:50:59 PeggyG: delicious is a huge step forward for many teachers who are still bookmarking on their own browers/computers.
21:51:26 Gail Desler: @PeggyG - agreed.  Wrapping your head around Diigo is a next step
21:51:33 PeggyG: that's a great point about the tools working together
21:51:48 PeggyG: and the merging of databases into Diigo is still an issue
21:51:55 carolteach4: Search on iTunes on Lessig; it's his speech to Educause on November 5, 09
21:52:54 PeggyG: Discovery Education is now providing citations for their media which is great!
21:53:13 PeggyG: it's great to be able to post the citations directly into Google Earth
21:54:27 PeggyG: http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/11/10/lawrence-lessigs-educause-keynote/
21:54:30 tellio: diigo is very deep.  I am still not using networks very well yet
21:55:30 elem-tech-tchr: If you are not real familiar with Delicious and not at all with Diigo.  Would you choose just one?  Which one?
21:55:38 PeggyG: with Diigo you can tackle adding on features as you become comfortable with them--don't have to do it all at once. I learn new things every day about Diigo.
21:56:22 carolteach4: @Peggy - thanks so much; you are terrific. I am so happy to see this link with the certificate from Lessig available at your link. Great. Have you listened yet?
21:56:25 PeggyG: @elem-tech-tchr--tough question :-) "it depends" on what you need. I prefer Diigo because it has such much more possible
21:56:39 tellio: zotero is specialized
21:56:45 PeggyG: haven't listened yet to Lessig but will soon
21:57:40 PeggyG: yes--that's the problem with databases and Diigo--copyright violation
21:58:03 carolteach4: Lessig addresses the issue of academic journals and how expensive they are; really feels that knowledge should be available for FREE for the purpose of education.
21:58:51 PeggyG: but when they aren't "free" it's a copyright violation
21:59:01 elem-tech-tchr: By the way thanks for these great links!  I keep posting links to my "old Word" website or a wiki but my list are growing so fast with twitter and now this I need a better, easier faster system
21:59:27 PeggyG: hooray for you @elem-tech-tchr!! You've got it!!!
22:00:01 crg: what is the coyright violation in relation to saving bookmarks?
22:00:16 PeggyG: no copyright violation for saving bookmarks
22:00:50 PeggyG: it has to do with annotating articles from databases and posting them on Diigo when the articles are copyrighted and part of a paid service
22:01:51 carolteach4: Listen to Lessig's talk; it is directly related to what you are addressing with "competitive hoarding" and how that does not advance education.
22:01:56 crg: ah ha, I've only used Delicious so was unaware of that in Diigo - thanks
22:02:07 PeggyG: great conversation!!! we have to keep pushing the envelope for this kind of mashing up of many tools
22:02:53 PeggyG: Diigo will let you take a snapshot of a webpage to annotate, highlight and comment on in collaborative groups
22:03:10 Fred Haas: Great point Wendy. A lot of the digital literacies can sometimes compete with other curricular agendas, which can be seriously problematic.
22:03:38 PeggyG: we are definitely all moving down that road of cloud computing
22:03:46 Wendy Drexler: Here's link to latest PLE work with 7th graders.  We're getting there in baby steps.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEls3tq5wIY
22:04:21 Wendy Drexler: That's my dissertation area.
22:04:27 PeggyG: thanks for that link Wendy! how exciting to hear students talking about personal learning networks :-)
22:05:56 crg: That's great Wendy, I'm still struggling to get my library staff to establish PLNs, students are easier
22:06:11 elem-tech-tchr: That is great, Wendy!! I just introduced PLNs to my building this will make a great follow-up
22:06:32 PeggyG: good point--managing social networks can be a big challenge!
22:07:05 PeggyG: @Wendy--are you going to publish your dissertation online? :-)
22:07:05 Wendy Drexler: The tools are changing very quickly.  Learners have to be very flexible at this point.  We've been using personal pages (widgets) to pull in different tools and content sites.  I'm looking forward to exploring MemCatch further.
22:07:43 PeggyG: I am too Wendy. Just joined MemCatch :-)
22:08:19 Fred Haas: I just got my Memcatch account tonight. I'm akh003
22:08:22 Wendy Drexler: @Peggy - Yes, I will publish the dissertation online.  Not sure that will be a best seller (LOL), but I'll try to synthesize it on my blog once it's all pulled together. 
22:08:53 PeggyG: fantastic!! I'll look forward to reading it!
22:09:07 Wendy Drexler: Thank you all.  Great conversation and resources.
22:09:17 PeggyG: I've only seen a few dissertations published online :-)
22:09:21 SusanEttenheim: thanks everyone!
22:09:32 PeggyG: thanks everyone!
22:09:38 Keith Bourne: Great, looking forward to sharing knowledge with everyone!  My username on memcatch is Keith Bourne, so fell free to add me as a contact.
22:09:42 Fred Haas: Thanks as always Susan, Paul, everyone. I always love being part of the conversation.
22:10:04 Wendy Drexler: Have a nice evening!
22:10:11 carolteach4: Thanks - always energizing listening in to  TTT
22:10:15 terry elliott: thank you susan
22:10:28 SusanEttenheim: night all!
22:10:29 PeggyG: good night
22:10:32 terry elliott: and wendy we will have to get together and share libraries
22:10:43 Wendy Drexler: Terry - You bet.
22:10:48 terry elliott: thanks paul for inviting me
22:14:30 elem-tech-tchr: Thanks for anyone still out there!  This was a great Discovery!
22:16:03 tim: thanks. cheers.
22:16:10 elem-tech-tchr: can anyone tell me what memmatch is?
22:16:33 tim: memcatch.com
22:16:45 elem-tech-tchr: thanks tim
22:17:08 tim: can't really tell you what it is - but it's an extension of the zotero, diigo theme - sharing social bookmarking
22:19:45 elem-tech-tchr: ok, I'll look into more --- looks kinda interesting
22:20:08 elem-tech-tchr: well have a good night-appreciate the help!