Conversations Episode 66 - Will You Pay?

 This week, Sheila Adams, Lisa Parisi, and Maria Knee were joined by Ginger Lewman for a conversation about free tools.  How much are we willing to pay if the tools don't stay free?  

 

Chat Archive:

11:27:46  sheila: Welcome to Conversations!

11:28:42  sheila: Can someone check to see if ETTA is running?

11:28:48  Maureen: I can hear you

11:28:49  LisaParisi: Hello Rose.  Welcome!!!

11:28:57  Josu: Hello

11:29:01  Maureen: ustream

11:29:01  LisaParisi: Maureen can you hear on ETTA?

11:30:02  Maureen: I can hear on ETTA- low volume

11:30:13  cyndidannerkuhn: Hello from Kansas State University, I can hear great

11:30:48  Maureen: You're back... Sheila!

11:30:59  sheila: Yes! Had a great trip!

11:31:20  Maureen: Maria have power again?

11:31:35  cyndidannerkuhn: Is there a link to that wiki you just mentioned

11:32:25  Rose Arnell: Hi Ladies. Sound is working..

11:32:34  sheila: Thanks!

11:32:37  Maureen: March 7th :-)

11:33:05  sheila: Blog at http://ettconversations.blogspot.com

11:33:14  Maureen: I pay for flickr pro, voicethread, toondoospaces

11:33:47  LisaParisi: I pay for animoto and voicethread

11:33:52  Maureen: You must have started when you were 9!

11:34:05  cyndidannerkuhn: I pay for Flickr Pro and just the $10 for Voicethread outta guilt

11:34:17  Rose Arnell: I try not to pay for anything because there is always an alternative

11:34:25  Maureen: We also pay for edublogs campus- whole school acct

11:34:28  LisaParisi: Well, without paying $10 in VT, you can only make 3.

11:34:30  cyndidannerkuhn: I do love that there is so much that is free though

11:34:39  woodenmask: I pay for Flickr Pro and just bought a Vimeo account - totally worth it.

11:34:40  Rose Arnell: PTA has paid for Voicethread

11:35:06  Maureen: Debating whether to go for glogster edu pro... not this year, no $

11:35:42  Maureen: That's a long time. I was cranky when mine was out for 4 hours this time. Last year it was a couple of days... very very cranky.

11:35:59  Rose Arnell: I am only hearing one side of the conversation. Am I able to somehow hear Maria?

11:36:17  LisaParisi: Oops.. maybe stick with ustream, Rose.

11:36:23  woodenmask: I'm not hearing Maria either.

11:36:26  LisaParisi: I don't think my stream is working well.

11:36:35  LisaParisi: Ustream will give you the whole conversation

11:36:42  LisaParisi: click on the play arrow

11:36:45  Maureen: That reminded me, I also bought a blip acct... for the whole school. I try to buy stuff that everyone preK-9 can use.

11:36:56  Rose Arnell: Got it, Lisa..thanks Nice

11:37:16  LisaParisi: Stream is in UStream only folks.  Sorry!

11:37:28  McTeach: Having computer issues this morning. Grrrr!

11:37:32  woodenmask: Thanks - got it.

11:37:55  McTeach: My kids always seem to be a little "off"! :/

11:38:02  woodenmask: Giant tree came down in our front yard.

11:38:03  Maureen: We got 20" the first storm, 12" the second, but not a lot of damage this time, just some white pine down

11:40:16  cyndidannerkuhn: 65 in Manhattan, KS

11:40:20  Maureen: You're boiling already! Wow! It's nice out today... sunny- 40s.

11:40:53  Maureen: I still have more than 2 feet of snow on the ground, only misguided robins- pecking at all the snow.

11:41:11  Maureen: Yardbirds

11:41:15  cyndidannerkuhn: wow what fun!! I remember them!!

11:41:45  MariaK: @Maureen - sap flowing for 2 weeks

11:42:28  Maureen: We just put buckets up at school- haven't checked them...the environmental club is doing it

11:44:03  sheila: Welcome Sarah H!

11:44:47  sarah H: Hi, thanks!

11:44:49  Maureen: It makes a difference if you are in a self-contained classroom or not. I have 6 classes- having to pay per pupil is hard.

11:45:37  Deya Castilleja: Hi, it´s nice to see so many people around. Hello from Mexico

11:45:57  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, I would just add something to the name like WrodleEducation

11:46:08  LisaParisi: http://blog.wordle.net/2010/03/what-happened.html

11:46:09  cyndidannerkuhn: woops WordleEducation

11:46:17  claudia: how do they make money to survive?

11:46:47  Maureen: They need a different business model. All the free stuff simply isn't sustainable. It has to scale and have a free, then premium model.

11:47:51  cyndidannerkuhn: I pay my $10 to voicethread, but have educator account.  Only pay $10 cuz I feel quilty since I use it and demo it so much

11:48:01  Maureen: I pay 200/yr

11:48:13  cyndidannerkuhn: No edu is not walled garden

11:48:19  Maureen: The edu acct you can have it as a walled garden, but do not have to

11:48:32  cyndidannerkuhn: edu account really is free for teachers

11:48:59  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, the montly stuff is tough

11:49:09  cyndidannerkuhn: I can handle 10 a year too

11:49:32  Maureen: I set up VT for the whole school, everyone has their own acct. I used to just use identities, but after a few years- with all the classes I teach, it was so cumbersome

11:49:46  sarah H: I feel like its time to pay for a site when I know it's doing something I couldn't do any other way.  Quia is worth $$.  Animoto is worth $$.   I like Poll Everywhere, but I can do the same thing with Google Docs, even if it isn't as pretty (I don't use the cell phone part).

11:49:47  McTeach: Ginger...the Devil's Advocate??? Shocking!

11:50:16  Maureen: I think that the schools should set up accts- edublogs, VT, etc... that way it is more available for all.

11:50:33  McTeach: So, it's like we're doing the advertising

11:50:38  McTeach: Oh...there you go, Lisa

11:50:41  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, we are thes site PR tool

11:51:11  sheila: @Sarah H - I pay for Quia too.

11:51:28  cyndidannerkuhn: good point ginger

11:51:54  cyndidannerkuhn: I do think we should have to prove we are the teacher

11:52:27  Maureen: I think that the schools should see the web 2.0 tools as "software". If you are using all these tools, you don't need all the other proprietary accts.

11:52:49  McTeach: Going to pay for my flickr account...with 365 project I'm using up my space

11:53:04  McTeach: And I want to use some of the extra features that you only get if you go pro

11:53:22  cyndidannerkuhn: I don't pay for Animoto, I have an educator account and bless them, they renew it everysemester when I introduce it in my class, cuz they get paid accounts whe the code expires from my students

11:53:36  cyndidannerkuhn: what is oovo?  sp?

11:53:40  sarah H: I am fortunate, my school can pay for some sites and it is my job to determine what is worth my limited budget.  I feel like schools under budget pressure (I have friends who are using personal $$ to buy toilet paper for the class bathroom) need more free accounts.

11:53:43  GingerTPLC: oovoo.com

11:54:04  cyndidannerkuhn: looks cool

11:54:08  Rose Arnell: I ask PTA to pay for accts. Not many teachers use tools, sadly enough.

11:54:32  Maureen: But, if you have the school set up the account- then you can usually set up groups within them, or sets in Flickr... no one teacher needs to pay. It is a cost of using the tools- like buying a license for Microsoft.

11:55:24  McTeach: Maureen...I work at a Catholic school so they won't pay for everything I feel I need

11:55:58  cyndidannerkuhn: I would rather just pay one fee too

11:57:05  cyndidannerkuhn: I absolutley love Voicethread, but it si so darn slow sometimes!!

11:57:19  GingerTPLC: My kids hate Voice Thread.

11:57:36  LisaParisi: Really Cyndi?  I don't find that.  Must be bandwidth.

11:57:59  cyndidannerkuhn: I do think Voicethread needs to make some improvements, it pretty much is exactly the same as when it began

11:58:18  Maureen: What about the other things we use.. diigo, google, etc... I can't live without them. I don't want these things to disappear, so how can I support them? By paying a relatively small fee is OK for me.

11:58:19  GingerTPLC: We have blistering bandwidth and it's super duper slow for us.

11:58:35  GingerTPLC: Google doesn't need us to pay. Ever.

11:58:58  claudia: Scrated is funded by MIT

11:59:09  LisaParisi: Google knows how to make money without charging us.

11:59:11  cyndidannerkuhn: There are so many tools that are free, most times one can be found to do what you what

11:59:26  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, no need to pay or google stuff

11:59:54  Maureen: OK... google was just an example.. I agree, but it is one of the tools I use constantly

12:00:12  cyndidannerkuhn: wordle issue, ginger what were those othert tools you share that were similiar? on that dark day wordle went down.

12:00:12  LisaParisi: So should we only use sites that are free?

12:00:39  claudia: Think that free tools will end being free because investment money has tried up. Most companies will start charging this year.

12:00:42  GingerTPLC: oh Cyndi, there are so many alternatives to Wordle.

12:00:42  Maureen: But as educators, we get something for free and then complain like crazy if the creators of the sites won't listen to use and modify things to make it easier- not really fair

12:01:12  cyndidannerkuhn: GingerTPLC, what are they

12:01:25  woodenmask: The people who develop this stuff deserve to make a living. If it's convenient and not too expensive, I pay. (Not often, but I do do it occasionally...)

12:01:29  claudia: Maureen is very right. We complain to the creators to modify, but then not willing to pay.

12:01:55  cyndidannerkuhn: I agreee, the people that make these tools deserve to make a living, it is a tough call

12:02:30  claudia: Server costs are expensive. Moderators on sites have to be paid to keep inappropriate content off the sites.

12:03:15  McTeach: Hence the Google Teachers Academy

12:03:16  Maureen: We want sites to be free, moderated, easy to use for teachers to set up for kids, etc. etc... I think we are asking too much.

12:03:17  cyndidannerkuhn: You are right, Google has it figured out

12:03:38  Maureen: Right , but google makes money from ads

12:03:41  claudia: Google should be feared. They will start charging.

12:03:59  McTeach: And we have Google Apps at our school and the kids love it! I know they'll continue using these features after they leave our school

12:04:06  woodenmask: Thinking about paying for my EduBlogs account - not crazy about the ads on our blog.

12:04:50  GingerTPLC: We're already paying for google. Just not with $.

12:04:59  GingerTPLC: We're paying with privacy.

12:05:00  Maureen: @woodenmask I think that edublogs did it the right way- show people what they have to do- have ads- in order to make the business work.

12:05:01  cyndidannerkuhn: I pay for server space for my Wordpress blog rather than use the free version.  Just give me more control

12:05:35  woodenmask: I agree Maria - we don't represent a major revenue stream. I like Vimeo and Flickr's model - if you use it a LOT, you have to pay a little.

12:05:37  claudia: Teachers though ask for more modifications to sites than other users so shouldn't they we paying something?

12:06:09  Maureen: SO, the school needs to recognize that these tools are necessary- ditch microsoft word- save tons of money and spend it on stuff like web 2.0 tools that we want to keep using.

12:06:27  sarah H: I do the same with wikispaces--only add free for kids.

12:06:34  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree, depends on the audience, I teach college age, so the ads are not usually a big deal

12:07:20  woodenmask: The ads on our RootsBlog are for African-American dating sites

12:07:53  cyndidannerkuhn: Me too, tak a screen shot of finished Wordle. then I can use however I need

12:07:53  sarah H: In my case, the adults are in conference sessions or workshops I do. I am either making money or getting to attend for less $$ so the ads should stay.

12:08:22  Maureen: I let the 7th graders use it- they can deal with ads

12:08:34  Rose Arnell: Does your school open YouTube for viewing in school, Lisa?

12:08:35  cyndidannerkuhn: It is WetPaint

12:08:39  LisaParisi: Do you think that's appropriate, @woodenmask?

12:08:42  GingerTPLC: Cyndi, you were asking about Wordle Alternatives: http://moourl.com/w7s9b

12:08:52  LisaParisi: Those are the ads that make me nervous.

12:08:54  sarah H: I have MS kids, so I have the talk about what to do if you see a Wordle with *wordy dirds* in it and then let them go on. 

12:09:03  sheila: Thanks Ginger! I was interested too!

12:09:15  cyndidannerkuhn: Thanks Ginger

12:09:18  Rose Arnell: @Lisa what tools do you ue to embed you tube vids for school?

12:09:30  Maureen: Listened to classroom 2.0 yesterday- sweet search and dulcinea- they have ads, mostly amazon. They have to make it useful for teachers, and still survive.

12:09:36  LisaParisi: I have a school blog that allows me to embed. 

12:09:36  woodenmask: They're not EXACTLY inappropriate, but I'd be happier with something a little less adult.

12:09:46  LisaParisi: I also embed into wikispaces.

12:10:10  Rose Arnell: How or what do you use to convert? Is youtube open in your school?

12:10:14  LisaParisi: We also see ads for feminine products.

12:10:25  GingerTPLC: But with EdTech Talk, not all of us can get on and use the service.

12:10:29  woodenmask: Or, I could cowboy up and pay for the site. A subscription pays for something like up to 7 separate pages.

12:10:30  LisaParisi: Yes, Rose, YouTube is open.  Go ahead...be jealous.

12:10:55  Rose Arnell: I definitely am!

12:11:00  Maureen: I showed the kids the firefox extension to get rid of ads- the lose the belly fat ones were too annoying

12:11:05  cyndidannerkuhn: There is a cool google add0n for converting Youtube, can;t remember name, saw a MACE conference last week

12:11:16  LisaParisi: What FF extension?

12:11:29  cyndidannerkuhn: I use Zamzar to conver http://zamzar.com  most of the time

12:11:30  sarah H: DownloadHelper will convert You Tube Vids.

12:11:43  Rose Arnell: I know of several to convert you tube but if you tube is blocked in school it still won't show.

12:11:43  Maureen: @Lisa- hang on a minute... using chrome

12:11:49  sarah H: Quiettube is handy if You Tube isn't blocked.

12:11:50  LisaParisi: I paid for a switch converter to convert videos and audio.

12:11:52  cyndidannerkuhn: tha is it Download helper

12:12:08  LisaParisi: $30 for life

12:12:15  MariaK: how does quiet tube work?

12:12:25  sarah H: I use download helper to load videos to a flash drive.

12:12:26  Maureen: @lisa- I use format factory to convert- free and does a great job

12:12:38  cyndidannerkuhn: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3006

12:12:39  GingerTPLC: Love QuietTube. It takes off ads and comments.

12:12:43  sarah H: Quiet tube shows just the video on a blankbackground.

12:12:56  LisaParisi: I had so many problems with free converters.  I use it all the time and really needed it to be reliable.

12:13:04  MariaK: does Quiet Tube convert you tube vids

12:13:09  sarah H: Sorry, I think there's a crumb under my spacebar.

12:13:13  LisaParisi: LOL

12:13:34  GingerTPLC: lol

12:13:42  sarah H: No converting with quiet tube, just takes away the clutter of You Tube.

12:14:32  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree Ginger, if value we should give back

12:14:52  cyndidannerkuhn: what is the tool you pay for?

12:15:02  sheila: and give back could be mean volunteering or financial or  . . .

12:15:20  cyndidannerkuhn: switch http://www.nch.com.au/switch/plus.html

12:15:24  GingerTPLC: Sheila. Yes.

12:15:26  GingerTPLC: Both.

12:15:52  Maureen: site

12:16:44  cyndidannerkuhn: Although Google sites is not a slick as some others, in fact as much as I love most of the google stuff, google sites is not my favorite

12:16:58  cyndidannerkuhn: I agree Prezi is a huge learning curve, no patience to learn it

12:18:03  cyndidannerkuhn: :D

12:18:05  McTeach: Cyndi...I used to think the same thing about Sites, but since we started using Google Apps at school this year, I've really learned to love them!

12:18:10  woodenmask: Thanks a LOT! Now I'm thirsty.

12:18:20  sheila: :)

12:18:22  McTeach: We did!!

12:18:26  GingerTPLC: Joh, you're so funny!

12:18:36  GingerTPLC: Google Apps is too restrictive for us.

12:18:44  cyndidannerkuhn: McTeach I am sure you are right.

12:18:56  Maureen: FF finally opened- the extension to block the ads is called ad block plus https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865 

12:19:35  claudia: Should be individual per tool

12:20:10  Maureen: I think it was because it was grandfathered in.  I had that too, but now switched to the paid version.

12:20:15  cyndidannerkuhn: Yes there is, I use it all the time and my students, preservice teachers use it too,

12:20:19  woodenmask: I made a VoiceThread with that same kind of Educator account about a month ago.

12:20:28  cyndidannerkuhn: there is a k12 free one

12:20:46  GingerTPLC: I'd rather pay for hardware than software. Hypocritical?

12:21:08  cyndidannerkuhn: I am not willing to pay for textbook, paper ones!! for what I teach they are outta date by the time I get them

12:21:15  claudia: Hard goods is something you can hold

12:21:16  MariaK: Yes - I think there is still a free educator account for VT

12:21:25  Maureen: But, all of this stuff is part of being in school... schools should shoulder the responsibility- do you pay for your laptops? 

12:21:55  woodenmask: I always imagine some guy in a loft (probably in Bangalore) trying to make a living. If we value creativity, we should be willing to walk the walk.

12:22:20  claudia: The change though is that the investment community was actively funding software companies 2 years ago. They have stopped funding now so companies are scrambling.

12:22:35  sarah H: But educators put open source software through a gauntlet that everyday users don't

12:22:36  woodenmask: That said, I wouldn't pay for anything that wasn't of value to me.

12:22:51  claudia: Everything is marked beta now

12:22:51  Maureen: But you pay for it an annual basis. You spend 300- 600 for school laptops- which last for 3 years... It would be the same thing- pay for annual subscriptions- just like paying for database for the library. All these things are tools to teach

12:23:02  cyndidannerkuhn: Here is the link to the VT FREE account.  There are three types Class account, Pro account and VT Educator, VT Educator is FREE- 50 Voicethreads, http://voicethread.com/pricing/k12/

12:23:05  claudia: yes

12:23:06  Maureen: Its a choice now

12:23:18  claudia: They are limiting the number of accounts

12:23:33  Maureen: You can keep the free glogster edu acct, but now there is a more powerful version that you can pay for

12:23:38  cyndidannerkuhn: http://edu.glogster.com/

12:23:48  sarah H: We didn't pay for educator glogster accounts in Nov.  Maybe it has changed since then.

12:23:49  claudia: Glogster is running out of money from what I hear

12:23:50  GingerTPLC: Sarah, you're right. We have LOTS of people we use the tool with in a quick amount of time, taking it though the paces all in the same room. Great research.

12:23:57  cyndidannerkuhn: Basic is free and they do have a subscription side too

12:24:31  cyndidannerkuhn: the paid side give you manage student accounts, etc

12:24:51  claudia: 30 guys out of czechoslavakia

12:24:57  Maureen: They changed a lot- so did diigo, so did toondoo... this stuff costs money!

12:25:05  claudia: they got $3million in funding years ago

12:25:21  Rose Arnell: Media specialist got a free Glogster premium account that she can share with teachers.

12:25:25  sarah H: Diigo is a tool I would pay for if I could get a few features added.

12:25:29  sheila: Never tried toondoo.

12:25:41  LisaParisi: I don't pay for toondoo

12:25:52  cyndidannerkuhn: I could not live without delicious!!  I would probably pay

12:26:20  cyndidannerkuhn: I am amazed that YouTube is still free

12:26:21  Maureen: @sheila- my kids love toondoo. I bought the subscription version- use shared accts. They make cartoons- can bring in their own images, etc...  I like it

12:26:29  sarah H: I've sent some thoughts  to Maggie Tsai, but I think they are not easy things to do.  But I'd pay.  So, is it worth it to develop them?

12:26:32  woodenmask: (Laughing...) "Never tried toondoo..." Sounds like something a cute girl would try to get me to do at a college party...

12:26:45  sheila: Tx Maureen - I'll check it out.

12:26:51  Maureen: @lisa- I paid for toondoospaces to keep it cleaner for the kids

12:26:59  claudia: i use doink

12:27:06  cyndidannerkuhn: audience is critical

12:27:41  cyndidannerkuhn: lol

12:27:47  claudia: hundreds!

12:28:11  GingerTPLC: I was floored when I started looking at wordle alternatives.

12:28:22  cyndidannerkuhn: here is a wiki Mary Fraizer and I put together for a presentation last week, growing into a monster http://technologykeys.wikispaces.com/

12:28:30  woodenmask: Floored in which way, Ginger?

12:28:41  Maureen: Marriage is funny that way

12:29:03  cyndidannerkuhn: And how about Photpeach, Stupleflix FixMix

12:29:16  cyndidannerkuhn: My college students love Animoto

12:29:31  cyndidannerkuhn: www.stupeflix.com/

12:29:42  cyndidannerkuhn: It is very cool

12:30:17  Maureen: you can put sound in.. use the slidecast piece

12:30:18  sarah H: hmm--My issue with Animoto is that my videos on YT keep getting flagged as violating copyright.

12:30:24  cyndidannerkuhn: Here is a new on Richard Bryne shared recently

12:30:25  cyndidannerkuhn: http://flixtime.com/

12:30:29  sheila: List of tools and apps - http://www.go2web20.net/

12:30:39  woodenmask: Thanks for the conversation - sunshine and a goofy 5-year old are calling.

12:30:44  cyndidannerkuhn: dotsut

12:30:52  sheila: bye john

12:30:58  LisaParisi: bye John

12:31:02  Maureen: I use authorstream....but they are a pain in the butt to upload. Takes forever.

12:31:03  cyndidannerkuhn: On dotSUB you can view, upload, transcribe, and translate any video into ... TED's new translation program using dotSUB - introduced by June Cohen TED 09 ... dotsub.com/

12:31:51  sarah H: uh oh--gotta run.  2 sick kids in the house.  Thanks for the great conversation!

12:31:55  cyndidannerkuhn: on all, my persoanl finances, maybe $200 total out of pocket, school, whatever I can convince them to pay for

12:32:02  Maureen: I pay about 500/yr, but I try to cover all the students- preK-9 with any acct I buy.

12:32:41  cyndidannerkuhn: That is my problem, keep finding a new one, I don't wnat to know, but my account said it was couple thousand for me too

12:32:42  LisaParisi: Bye Sarah

12:32:51  MariaK: http://www.myplick.com/

12:33:10  Maureen: What about dipity and the timeline tools?

12:34:01  cyndidannerkuhn: never heard of myplick, but looks cool

12:34:05  Maureen: If we didn't have these tools we would have to buy proprietary software to do the same types of things... It should come out of a school wide IT acct and be available to everyone

12:34:18  sheila: Soo many tools I feel I haven't even heard of them

12:34:33  cyndidannerkuhn: This was excellent, thanks

12:34:48  Rose Arnell: Always learning....you ladies are great!

12:35:07  Rose Arnell: Bye Lisa:)

12:35:13  LisaParisi: http://ettconversations.blogspot.com/

12:35:15  MariaK: good bye all!