Conversations Episode 91 Change the Language

Post-Show description: 

In this week’s show, Maria, Sheila, and Lisa spoke with Trung Le from CannonDesigns about how we can change the language of schools and the design to better help our students.  Taking ideas from The Third Teacher , we all were quite inspired.

Chat Log

11:26:12 Lisa Parisi : Thank you for coming.

11:26:59 RJ Stangherlin : Should I be hearing sound?

11:27:17 MariaK : not yet - will be streaming soon

11:27:22 Lisa Parisi : Rj

11:28:01 Lisa Parisi : Hi RJ

11:28:08 Lisa Parisi : Ustream is up

11:28:39 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : ustream sounds good

11:30:35 RJ Stangherlin : Is this your show that airs several times a week, or are you the host today. Sorry I am not knowledgeable.

11:31:02 PeggyG : Hi everyone! Looking forward to today's conversation

11:31:03 Lisa Parisi : This show runs once a week.  And I host with 3 others

11:31:09 Lisa Parisi : We will do the intro soon.

11:31:12 PeggyG : Hi RJ-Welcome

11:31:16 RJ Stangherlin : Hi

11:31:43 PeggyG : There are many EdTechTalk webcasts every week but this show is Conversations and meets every Sunday

11:32:33 RJ Stangherlin : Will you send me the ustream code after this session is over. I missed the piece about floating the conversation in ustream?

11:32:47 Lisa Parisi : Hello Amanda

11:32:52 Lisa Parisi : Hello Alice

11:32:59 marragem : Morning everyone!

11:33:01 [email protected] : Hi Alice, Hi Amanda!

11:33:04 alicebarr : Good morning

11:33:06 PeggyG : Welcome Trung! Saw you virtually at Educon in the panel

11:33:30 S Adams : Morning/evening everyone!

11:33:42 PeggyG : OK-Le it is!

11:33:43 RJ Stangherlin : I blogged about you on the DEN Global blog, Le. Nice to meet you again.

11:34:02 PeggyG : audio is great on the stream

11:34:20 [email protected] : Are you iced in up in NH?

11:34:48 S Adams : I can see ice on the roads but so far we have power! :)

11:34:57 MariaK : @maureen - yes very icy, crunchy here!

11:34:57 RJ Stangherlin : What does language mean in education?

11:35:21 Lisa Parisi : CAn everyone hear?

11:35:30 alicebarr : Yes audio is great!

11:35:32 PeggyG : yes

11:35:33 marragem : yes. very clear

11:35:37 Lisa Parisi : Great

11:35:44 [email protected] : @Sheila I didn't lose power, but heavy icing. Cannot get down my hill-giving the plow guy till the end of the show before I call him

11:35:49 Lisa Parisi : The Third Teacher

11:36:04 Lisa Parisi :

11:36:22 S Adams : Get the skates Maureen.

11:36:52 [email protected] : @Sheila- my car doesn't have skates...

11:37:06 PeggyG : Heard Heppell on the K12 Online conference a year ago or so

11:37:16 PeggyG :

11:37:25 Lisa Parisi : Thanks for the link, Peggy

11:37:28 S Adams : Piece of cardboard - your own luge!

11:37:31 marragem : he visits Australia a fair bit

11:37:45 alicebarr : SAw Stephen at BLC a few years ago. Really great.

11:37:59 RJ Stangherlin : Adults, peers, and environment are the 3 teachers, with the 3rd teacher as the environment.

11:38:30 alicebarr : IS environment physical or cultural or both?

11:38:37 PeggyG : the 3rd teacher concepts is really interesting-need to learn more about it!

11:38:37 marragem : we would too in OZ

11:38:40 [email protected] : It seems that we're stuck on the 1st teacher, learning from peers is still "controversial" and the environment of the classroom is just emerging

11:39:06 PeggyG : why do so many people think that peer pressure is a negative thing?

11:39:16 RJ Stangherlin : LIsa thinks we're stuck on the 23rd teacher. We cannot even select robust colors for our rooms. Green is the worst color for thinking.

11:39:56 PeggyG : cover the walls until the fire marshall coomes and makes you take it all down!

11:39:59 [email protected] : We can paint whatever color we want- but we have to buy it and do the painting ourselves :-)

11:40:25 RJ Stangherlin : Is a cluttered environment too stimulating for an ADHD student?

11:40:31 Cathy E : No painting for us - and wall coverage is limited

11:40:52 PeggyG : Amanda I saw the pictures of your learning environments and was so impressed!!! who wouldn't want to teach and learn there??!!

11:40:52 [email protected] : If you actually think about design- hierarchy- where does your eye naturally track- are you cluttering up your space or honoring kid work

11:40:54 RJ Stangherlin : Will the streaming be archived? Code?

11:41:13 marragem : I actually don't have many walls to paint. Too many windows

11:41:14 Lisa Parisi : You can find the archive here on edtechtalk

11:41:15 PeggyG : yes RJ-the stream will be posted on

11:41:16 Beth Poss : No painting for us, but we do cover classroom walls with student work, etc! 

11:41:42 RJ Stangherlin : Thanks, Peggy.

11:42:09 RJ Stangherlin : Le says you can introduce diversity into the sameness.

11:42:14 marragem : I don't have a teacher's desk

11:42:19 Beth Poss : I have worked with many students with Autism and sensory processing disorders over the years and we often create sensory escapes with rooms for them.  Kids do need to learn to filter sensory information, but also need to have an escape from it.

11:42:26 RJ Stangherlin : Should there even be a "front" of the class?

11:42:40 [email protected] : Can the kids rearrange their desks/tables?

11:42:45 marragem : that's very early years, Lisa. yay!

11:42:49 PeggyG : Sheila you should stream the pics from Amanda's classroom :-) very inspiring

11:42:50 Lisa Parisi : I think that, yes, sometimes, there needs to be a front

11:43:10 S Adams : Peggy - link?

11:43:21 marragem : my room's 8mx6m - so small

11:43:26 Beth Poss : the front of our classrooms are often being dictated by the installation of Promethean boards

11:43:34 PeggyG : Amanda can you come up with the link quickly?

11:43:38 Lisa Parisi : YEs, Beth.  We have our smartboard there.

11:43:40 PeggyG : I saw them via Facebook

11:43:41 RJ Stangherlin : Are we limited by the things around us? Do shape and size confine or lead to innovation by forcing creativity inside confines?

11:43:50 Lisa Parisi : But I often find myself giving instruction frm the back of the room

11:43:57 marragem : i ahve a space at the front - hate it but that's where the screen for the data projector is

11:44:19 Beth Poss : teachers need to be able to use different spaces in the rooms for different teaching/learning experiences

11:44:19 RJ Stangherlin : I never heard the expression "teaching wall" before.

11:44:30 marragem : love Maria's room - it's sooo big!!

11:44:32 PeggyG :

11:45:08 PeggyG : I think word walls are very powerful tools for kids when they help to create them

11:45:20 [email protected] : Some IWB, like eno are more portable- and height adjustable. I doubt that we will ever have any- but been to their demos.

11:45:42 marragem : they helped create the one in our learning neighbourhood

11:45:54 PeggyG : excellent Sheila! seeing them now

11:46:13 [email protected] : When I taught K I always had to make sure that I set things up so avoid "runways". Make it easier to walk, than run

11:46:29 PeggyG : good point Maureen :-)

11:46:30 marragem : thanks, Peggy. Not entirely hapy with it but the couch & beanbags are very popular

11:46:54 RJ Stangherlin : Rows of seats facing the front wall is the worst thing we have done in education in the past 100 years, acc. to Le.

11:46:57 PeggyG : they are very inviting learning spaces! and so bright and colorful!

11:46:59 [email protected] : @marragem- the powers that be don't want us to have couch, etc... lice police

11:47:26 marragem : I've tried to have pockets in my small space

11:47:49 RJ Stangherlin : Kindergarden have pockets of activity and creativity but we take that away from older students.

11:48:02 [email protected] : Came from the German.... His name begins withh F....

11:48:07 PeggyG : what a great point! why don't we provide these creative learning spaces for older kids? they do at ISB in Bangkok :-)

11:48:09 marragem : see- there's that space at the front that I hate but need it for when groups are in front of the datat projector plus kids like to work on the floor

11:48:59 Beth Poss : I think MS/HS would love learning pockets/learning centers to rotatee through instead of always having lectures or independent/non group work

11:49:14 marragem : I'm foing to have some trees outside that window once the building work is finished

11:49:18 PeggyG : I agree Beth!

11:49:25 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Our new MS has a promethean board in each room.  Many teachers unhappy they are being forced to use them

11:49:43 marragem : I'll take one of those boards, Scott

11:50:06 PeggyG : Amanda-it's clear that your learning spaces facilitate independent learning and choice

11:50:32 RJ Stangherlin : Curriculum, pedagogy, and space. Room not a silo of discipline. (Le)

11:50:32 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Lots of folks would! 

11:50:38 marragem : thanks, Peggy. That's what I try for

11:50:49 PeggyG : great quote RJ

11:51:23 RJ Stangherlin : A k-garden classroom avoids collision and lets everything mix. The environment allows intersection of subjects and activities.

11:51:49 PeggyG : playtime is learning time!

11:51:57 RJ Stangherlin : I agree w/Lisa, and I believe that states' standardized test dictate the learning environment.

11:52:22 Lisa Parisi : Allanah has those tables too but there is a little cubby for each kids items

11:52:25 marragem : love the tables - can move them around to suit the activity

11:52:58 RJ Stangherlin : In the top 10 nations, US is 10 according to the most recent poll.

11:53:14 marragem : we have tidy trays off to the side - actually allow me to create some dividers

11:53:25 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : I like the idea of tables instead of desks in rows, but many teachers I have talked with are concerned about classroom management being an issue.

11:54:00 marragem : there afraid to trust the learner, Scott. So many teachers are

11:54:18 marragem : they're, I mean. It's nearly 3am

11:54:24 MariaK : here's a peak at my classroom through the eyes of wes fryer -

11:54:29 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : I agree.  The best way to keep control is to give it away.

11:54:35 RJ Stangherlin : Does the fear of room flexibility go back to the teacher as sage on the stage? Is this a control issue.

11:54:47 PeggyG : @Scott-ifyou value collaborative learning you need to be able to have flexibile learning spaces and not desks in rows--teachers need to manage their classrooms, not the furniture (off the soapbox now)

11:55:36 PeggyG : how often have you seen classrooms set up to make it easy for the custodians to clean it? :-(

11:55:50 marragem : we call it a learning neoghbourhood

11:55:53 Lisa Parisi : Invent a new language with the kids

11:56:11 marragem : negpotiated, inquiry-based learning. yay!

11:56:16 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : I agree Peggy, but how do we help these teachers get out of their comfort zone and try something new?

11:56:21 alicebarr : Why is there such a disconnect between business that want creativity and the agenda for public schools?

11:56:24 PeggyG : having the kids help you map activities is a great idea

11:56:32 Lisa Parisi : Good question, Alice

11:56:49 RJ Stangherlin : What is the language of the classroom, and how do we get unstuck so we can see the possibilities, asks Lisa. So instead of saying "classroom," Le says asks the kids what we do in this space. What do we do in this space in the AM. What do we need (discovery-iteration for most functional thing) to do this activity? Can you divide into zones for activities? Zones become customized. (Le)

11:56:50 marragem : no

11:57:24 RJ Stangherlin : How you describe your spaces for how you live and learn is the language we need.

11:57:45 RJ Stangherlin : Map out what you need for what you do. Then you get to a different environment.

11:57:51 PeggyG : typing in the chat window is painfully slow for me today--I may lose my connection :-(

11:58:05 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Alice, the current batch of teacher candidates are learning the new models.... but they have to worry about getting hired and keeping a job.  Only a small percentage are willing/able to challenge the current model.

11:58:19 RJ Stangherlin : Hallway is dead space. Most of the time it is empty. (Le)

11:59:15 marragem : a lot of public schools in Queensland have those glassed off areas

11:59:32 alicebarr : @Scott: I have not seen the new models being taught in university, in fact it continues the old model. But I agree, the current crop of gradiautes will have a very tough time getting hired becasue they are caught in the middle

11:59:34 PeggyG : really like the terms learning studio and learning neighborhood

11:59:43 RJ Stangherlin : Found the color font. Ta Da.

12:00:36 PeggyG : thanks for posting that link Amanda from Wes Fryer! Excellent description!

12:00:48 marragem : Peggy -mine chose neighbourhood because I do allow them to go outside & they consider the world is their classroom

12:01:04 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Much depends on building admin.  Some are trying to change the world; others are trying to survive until retirement.  New teachers MUST find a good fit in order to become change agents.

12:01:36 PeggyG : I like neighborhood too because it broadens the way we view the "learning space" shouldn't just be a facility

12:01:44 marragem : I had to fight for the tables I have, Scott. Brought in the couch & beanbags myself

12:01:52 [email protected] : At our school we may have different ages using the same spaces- which makes changing the shared space more difficult. Or different specials coming in to use some of the space, ie French teachers come in to preK and K.

12:01:56 PeggyG : excellent point Scott!!!

12:01:58 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Alice, my college is a small, private, liberal arts school.  Maybe we are ahead of the curve

12:02:09 RJ Stangherlin : Our high school has built a new wing and has renovated. New wing is great, but rehabed rooms are same old...

12:02:16 alicebarr : @Scott you are right.

12:03:02 S Adams : Welcome Radio V.

12:03:05 alicebarr : @Scott Yea for your college! How great for your teacher candidates!

12:03:18 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : I think beanbags / bathtubs / couches are not allowed in our school... due to possible lice issues

12:03:22 alicebarr : @Scott I would bet you are ahead of the curve. That's great!

12:03:42 RJ Stangherlin : The key is identifying needs. Classroom shouldn't be static.

12:03:47 [email protected] : This may be a silly ?, but we have kids with life threatening allergies- who need their own space in the classroom. What do you do for those kids?

12:03:52 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) :

12:04:08 Lisa Parisi : Why can't they have a space Maureen?

12:04:17 RJ Stangherlin : If you look to the environment and ask what can be changed to make it better suited to purpose, that becomes part of environment.

12:04:49 [email protected] : @Lisa If they cannot go into spaces that you set up for different purposes- it excludes them

12:04:50 PeggyG : great point Maria! we should change those things we can and have control over rather than just accepting status quo

12:04:50 alicebarr : @Scott I like the Teacher as Leader.

12:05:17 Lisa Parisi : The class needs to be aware.  What are the allergies that everyone needs to be aware of ?

12:05:44 Cathy E : Maria, What about your online space?

12:05:58 RJ Stangherlin : I'm remembering Chris Lehmann's opening mantra at EduCon 2.3. Look back and look ahead. Looking ahead to tomorrow, I ask myself what can the students change, how can they repurpose space, reinvent their environment.

12:06:06 Cathy E : Do you have a class webpage? or do you your blog for everything?

12:06:09 marragem : Maria's room is 3 times the size of mine

12:06:27 [email protected] : @lisa we have a few kids with typical nut allergies, but some others who I have separate desks, etc.. for and these need to be cleaned before/after use. They cannot touch things outside their environment

12:07:01 Lisa Parisi : We had a total nut free environment a few years ago.  No kids had nuts even for lunch so it wasn't an issue for our classroom.

12:07:27 marragem : my kids play the piano of the ipad

12:07:33 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) :  a 1000 lb bulliten board! lol

12:07:42 RJ Stangherlin : I do not have a teacher's desk in my room, and haven't for years. I find it a barrier between me/kids.

12:07:43 [email protected] : @lisa we have several classrooms like that- but our kids move all around the campus- 6 dif buildings

12:08:06 marragem : a loft would be cool. Our ceilings aren't high enough

12:08:10 PeggyG : fire marshalls made us remove the lofts in our school :-(

12:08:36 Cathy E : @ Peggy your fire marshallsl must be related to mine

12:08:41 marragem : gee, where are you going to fit me, Maria?

12:08:51 [email protected] : I had a desk to pile stuff on when I taught K, but it wasn't used for anything else.

12:08:56 PeggyG : I think they're all related Cathy E :-)

12:09:23 alicebarr : What if all the kids had office space

12:09:32 william Vegazo -> puentesalmundo: si escucho

12:09:44 MariaK : I will always have room for you Amanda - 5 more months!!!

12:09:52 Cathy E : my desk is in a closet -

12:10:02 PeggyG : @Alice-they do! it's called a desk :-)

12:10:14 alicebarr : :)

12:10:59 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : As we become more paperless, desks become less of a requirement.

12:11:05 RJ Stangherlin : Years ago, I had a nearly windowless classroom with a dark midnight blue wall. I was not allowed to paint it or have it changed, so I invited Phoebe Floral to redesign the wall after school. They did it 5 times throughout the year, keeping to the seasons. That choice brought the outside world inside, and the kids loved it! Next year the wall was painted white and I was told Phoebe couldn't come in to design. I guess that's a mindset for progress.

12:11:26 marragem : 18 wks today, Maria!!

12:11:43 Lisa Parisi : Nice try RJ

12:11:58 RJ Stangherlin : Could you share the link?

12:12:17 PeggyG :

12:12:21 Sheila :

12:12:21 [email protected] : is it

12:14:05 PeggyG : that's a great story RJ! we did a similar thing with all of our hallways and one of our parents created the murals. Everyone loved having a different theme for each hallway

12:14:27 marragem : wish I still had my own room - had ocean views

12:14:31 PeggyG : each hall was a different biome

12:14:50 RJ Stangherlin : Believe it or not, it was the teachers who complained that I was making learning a contest. The kids loved the room and the teachers hated it. Go figure.

12:15:35 PeggyG : and why do you think the teachers didn't like it RJ? probably too much work :-)

12:16:09 [email protected] : @peggy, RJ It probably felt competitive to them

12:16:29 PeggyG : those points are so important--it's about the kids!

12:16:51 PeggyG : I agree Maureen! threatened and didn't want to have to "compete" with him

12:16:52 RJ Stangherlin : Kids need to move to learn, yet kids sit all day on chairs, no movement. "Do no harm." No harsh chemicals and beware of the invisible stuff. (Le)

12:17:03 [email protected] : So, as we are thinking about redesign, should also be thinking about sustainability

12:17:04 marragem : we teachers try to - but admin doesn't always listen. We have a building project going on. Teachers were consulted but guess what - the architects said no

12:17:49 [email protected] : Our kids made it a rule- no idling (winter frigid temps are an exception)

12:17:56 PeggyG : @marragem-that happened to us a lot when we were building our new school--many things proposed by teachers and students were nixed by architects and cost

12:18:14 RJ Stangherlin : They said (and this was years ago in middle school) that they couldn't afford to do the same thing and it wasn't fair if I did the redesign. Truth was at that time I really couldn't afford it but I couldn't stand the awful environment and neither could the kids. So I changed it into something inviting and fun.

12:18:41 PeggyG : good for you RJ!! you made a difference!!!

12:19:30 RJ Stangherlin : Thanks, Peggy.

12:19:41 marragem : Peggy - the powers that be in Cath Ed are just as bad too. I was part of a group that they consulted with re contemporary learning spaces but when push comes to shove, they won't let schools adopt what we were proposing

12:19:41 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : one of the schools I sub at forbids bare feet, stocking feet, or open-toed shoes.... for "safety and hygene" reasons

12:20:07 PeggyG : so sad Amanda!

12:20:45 [email protected] : In science class we have the rule- no open toed shoes, etc- and it is a real safety reason. But our kids run between buildings almost every class- they'd need another 5 min passing time to put shoes on and off

12:21:01 marragem : I let kids take shoes off - against workplace health & safety...& I'm on the WHS panel!

12:21:28 PeggyG : both Montessori and Reggio Emilia provide very creative learning environments

12:22:21 PeggyG : I didn't get to see the stream for Zoe and Rodd--lost their connection :-(

12:22:28 [email protected] : What- no emergent layer?

12:22:39 PeggyG : at least I got to see the slideshare for it

12:22:58 RJ Stangherlin : It's such a shame that the things that kids like most (high school) are things that violate school policy. I streched the rules a bit in a very small study hall and the group of us became almost like a family. We both hated when the semester ended.

12:23:11 PeggyG :

12:23:44 marragem : thanks for that link, Peggy. I missed most of the sessions last weekend

12:24:11 PeggyG : it was an incredible weekend, even as a virtual participant

12:25:11 marragem : My mum had to be hospitalised over the weekend, so I missed all of Sunday

12:25:21 Lisa Parisi : Is she okay Amanda?

12:25:58 PeggyG : hopefully they will be able to post all of the livestream videos soon--I keep checking back :-) I know it's a huge undertaking!

12:26:17 RJ Stangherlin : I just checked today and they are not posted yet.

12:26:25 marragem : she's home but being monitored. Her BP was thru the roof and she was off ablance. Still concern of a stroke

12:26:43 Lisa Parisi : So sorry to hear that.

12:26:51 Lisa Parisi : Glad she is home

12:26:54 PeggyG : clever! change the hallway label and then fire marshalls will treat it differently

12:27:13 RJ Stangherlin : @marragem: hopefully not a stroke.

12:27:14 MariaK : @marragem - sorry to hear about your mum.

12:27:19 PeggyG : very sorry to hear about your mum Amanda!!

12:27:35 marragem : thanks, Lisa. She's fiercely independent but when your BP is over 200, it's a worry

12:28:15 PeggyG : 50 minute periods and rigid schedules are one of the most problemmatic things about schools!

12:28:46 RJ Stangherlin : The most beautifully designed space in our new wing is, not surprisingly, our art suite. The art teacher had a hand in the design and honestly I could stay there all day. Wish I had a room like his.

12:29:02 [email protected] : I still send kids out to run when they need it.... even my big kids.

12:29:03 PeggyG : yes Maria! and everyone doesn't need the same thing!!!

12:29:08 Lisa Parisi : Makes sense for her to be part of the design

12:29:25 Lisa Parisi : OUr library was overhauled and the librarian wasn't consulted

12:29:26 Cathy E : I think it will get better once teachers have all their resources online - in the cloud.  They will use their iPads or similar device, instead of reaching for that book on the shelf.

12:29:27 RJ Stangherlin : Actually, not a room but a series of spaces, and that truly does describe the area.

12:29:41 Lisa Parisi : I am getting there Cathy.

12:29:55 Lisa Parisi : Dream Big and Be Brave

12:30:06 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : One-size-fits all does not works with clothing, automotive parts, tools, or education.

12:30:08 RJ Stangherlin : 1:1 CFF helped PA get there. We're close in our district, but we didn't jump in the first year.

12:30:47 PeggyG : it's so easy to use/make excuses to keep from taking responsibility for making changes and taking risks that we KNOW are important for kids

12:31:28 PeggyG : I love that website!!! can't wait to spend more time on it!

12:31:54 Cathy E : Great conversation!

12:32:07 RJ Stangherlin : So sorry to leave. Thank you all for allowing me into this wonderful conversation. Thoroughly enjoyed every minute.

12:32:22 RJ Stangherlin : Name on twitter/facebook?

12:32:38 PeggyG :

12:32:49 PeggyG : I just liked it too!! :-)

12:33:12 RJ Stangherlin : I can't click or copy the links.

12:33:16 PeggyG :!/TheThirdTeacher

12:33:20 RJ Stangherlin : Which Trung Le?

12:33:43 Lisa Parisi :

12:33:44 Scott Shelhart (@kd9sr) : Nice show. Thank you.

12:33:45 PeggyG : links should be clickable in the chat

12:33:50 RJ Stangherlin : Again, thank so much.

12:33:58 Lisa Parisi : Thank you so much all for coming.

12:34:04 Sheila : The linkw will be available with the podcast later.

12:34:13 PeggyG : sometimes it helps to popup and float the chat window to use links

12:34:19 Sheila : I can click on the links.

12:34:21 RJ Stangherlin : Not. Must be my system.

12:34:26 marragem : great show, everyone!

12:34:36 PeggyG : probably java something RJ...

12:34:41 Lisa Parisi : Bye all

12:34:43 Cathy E : @Lisa - Before and After Pic

12:34:54 RJ Stangherlin : Bye.

12:34:54 PeggyG : thank you Le!! fantastic, inspiring conversatioin!

12:35:15 PeggyG : So glad you could join us RJ-come back next week :-)

12:35:16 marragem : great show, everyone

12:35:16 marragem : bye. I'm off to bed!

12:35:28 PeggyG : night Amanda!

12:38:57 Sheila : Thanks so much all