Teachers Teaching Teachers #248 - Gaming Questions from Texas, Minecraft, and the "2011 Horizon Report K12 Edition" - 5.25.11

Post-Show description: 

Gaming Questions from Texas and the 2011 Horizon Report K12 Edition

One of the more inspiring threads of our collective inquiry on Teachers Teaching Teachers (TTT) has been to explore how to bring gaming into our classrooms. (See some of our shows on gaming from the past 18 months.) With this episode,  we add to that list of shows.

This episode of TTT began with a study group on gaming that teachers Janelle Quintans Bence and Colleen Graveskull have been involved with in the North Star Writing Project (Texas). We first met Janelle in July 2007 in the National Writing Project's Tech Matters workshops.

Janelle and her colleagues in Texas are filled with questions as they plan to bring gaming into their classrooms this fall. She sent me some of them. What better way to jump back into gaming than with a bunch of questions -- the kind of questions teachers often ask when they consider adding games to their classes.

Here are the questions we've been brainstorming in our study group on gaming:
  1. How did you all begin including gaming curriculum in your classrooms?
  2. What are some of your biggest successes? Challenges?
  3. How much game playing goes on in your classroom? Do students only play in social action games? What does that conversation look like? What norms are set prior to this?
  4. I'm thinking about using the games students play on a regular basis as media for students to deconstruct and analyze in terms of influencing identity. Should I be playing all these games to get a better idea? Or will observing the students play suffice? What does a teacher do if he or she is not good at playing those video games?
  5. Designing games really requires deep content knowledge. How much experience with game design did you have prior to letting the students explore that avenue?
  6. Could you tell us about Scratch? What are the benefits of this program as compared to Game Star Mechanic?
  7. What kind of evaluation do you use around gaming? 
  8. Is it all informal discourse based assessment, or do you do something more formal? 
  9. Has your game playing been limited to computer games or have you also used standalone consuls? 
  10. How much time did you have to dedicate to help students understand how to utilize the game design tool before they began designing? Do you feel that this time has been detrimental to fulfilling your ability to satisfy state standards?
Joining us on this podcast to help us to explore these questions is Samantha Adams, the Director of Communications, at the New Media Consortium (NMC).  Samantha is one of the writers of of the recently released Horizon Report: 2011 K12 Edition, which has a section on gaming:
Game-based learning has gained considerable traction since 2003, when James Gee began to describe the impact of game play on cognitive development. Since then, research and interest in the potential of gaming on learning has exploded, as has the diversity of games themselves, with the emergence of serious games as a genre, the proliferation of gaming platforms, and the evolution of games on mobile devices. Developers and researchers are working in every area of game-based learning, including games that are goal-oriented; social game environments; non-digital games that are easy to construct and play; games developed expressly for education; and commercial games that lend themselves to refining team and group skills. Role-playing, collaborative problem solving, and other forms of simulated experiences are recognized for having broad applicability across a wide range of disciplines.
As the lead writer at the NMC, Samantha Adams was deeply involved in the research and writing of the report. We can't wait to see what she has to say about gaming and the other items in the report: Cloud Computing, Mobiles, Open Content, Learning Analytics, Personal Learning Environments.

Given the questions coming form the North Star Writing Project's study group on gaming, we also invited Chad Sansing, from the Central Virginia Writing Project. This June, at ISTE's Unplugged, Chad plans to "take a closer look at student writing and multi-media compositions created in response to game-based learning on Digital Is, the National Writing Project's new media archive and initiative."

And that's not all! Fortunately, we were smart enough to ask Chad who else he thought we might invite. Thanks to his connections, Janelle and her colleagues (and all of our listeners) get to hear about gaming from these three educators as well:

  • Joel Levin, a computer teacher at Manhattan's Columbia Grammar and Preparatory School. Joel decided to start using the game Minecraft to teach an entire unit to his first- and second-grade students recently. (See an with Joel, "Educational building blocks: how Minecraft is used in classrooms," by Andrew Webster | Published about a month ago in ars technica.)

  • Melanie McBride, who also recommended...
    ...my partner, children's author and elementary teacher, Liam O'Donnell for this episode. He's currently using Minecraft with a spec ed class and taking an interesting approach (I'm biased of course). In addition to his experience as a teacher, he's been writing and advocating for games based learning for a very long time. As well he's written extensively about reluctant readers, boys and learning and many of his graphic novels are aimed at those readers - high action, lower vocab.http://liamodonnell.com

    As for myself: I'm currently on a leave of absence from high school teaching to write my book and research *situated* informal learning (the out of school kind) of gaming and virtual worlds. While I still locate myself peripherally to the games based learning in schools/education, I quite intentionally chose to focus on "informal" and "situated" learning contexts rather than school examples.  We're studying Minecraft for use with early childhood educators (post secondary) with small children. http://edgelab.ryerson.ca/2011/05/19/tinkering-with-minecraft-learning-from-the-edge/

  • Liam O'Donnell is on this podcast as well. Liam sent along this link:
    "Here's a post about my first week using Minecraft with my kids. It'll give you a sense of my teaching style and philosophy. http://liamodonnell.com/feedingchange/2011/05/messy-learning-with-minecraft/"
    For me, it was the perfect vehicle to build the literacy skills of seven grade 5 and 6 students who come to me for reading and writing support three days a week. For these students, motivation to read and write is a big challenge. Previously, we had done a writing unit around their Nintendo DSi’s, specifically Pokemon, where they had drawn maps of the game areas, profiled their favourite Pokemon and written strategy guides for specific Pokemon fights.  I knew they loved video games and after screening a few Minecraft videos on youtube, they were totally eager to play.

We think you'll find this to be a provocative podcast!  Janelle and her colleagues in Texas probably got some questions answered, and maybe they were inspired to ask a few new ones. Maybe you will be too!

Click Read more to see a copy of the chat that was happening during the webcast.

20:52:09 blackram66: I got a twitter post that minecraftteacher was going to be live here?
20:52:34 melmcbride: we're all teaching with minecraft lol
20:53:18 blackram66: i'll take that as...a yes?
20:53:21 melmcbride: but yes@
20:53:24 blackram66: lol
20:55:39 Nightrader: Oh now there are people in chat!
20:55:42 Nightrader: Hi guys!
20:55:47 Nightrader: How are you all.
20:56:17 Nightrader: Have you all had a good day?
20:56:27 Suzie Boss: Great--looks like terrific line-up for tonight
20:56:33 Nightrader: Indeed.
20:56:50 Nightrader: Super fun, This is my first episode of watching.
20:57:00 Nightrader: What do you guys do?
20:59:19 [email protected]: hello, everyone
20:59:51 JoelNYC: Hello folks
21:00:00 blackram66: Hello joel
21:00:53 Nightrader: Am I the only one in here not a teacher?
21:01:02 matt montagne: hi folks
21:01:06 Nightrader: Hello.
21:01:09 blackram66: <.< I'm not a teacher
21:01:19 Nightrader: ok
21:01:32 Nightrader: Hello.
21:01:38 blackram66: I came becasue of Tweet Minecraftteacher posted...
21:01:49 Nightrader: Same here :)
21:01:53 [email protected]: ready for the fun to begin
21:01:53 blackram66: A Tweet*
21:01:56 Nightrader: This is my first time here.
21:02:00 blackram66: same here
21:02:02 melmcbride: me too
21:02:03 Nightrader: Hope it is interesting
21:02:07 blackram66: yea
21:02:14 melmcbride: <- mostly lurking
21:02:17 blackram66: lol
21:02:20 Chris Sloan: should be interesting
21:03:37 SusanEttenheim: hi everyone
21:03:47 melmcbride: hey hey
21:03:49 [email protected]: just happy it's working
21:04:04 Nightrader: Hello.
21:04:08 Suzie Boss: audio yet? not hearing anything...
21:04:19 Nightrader: Not live yet.
21:04:24 Suzie Boss: ok, thanks
21:04:34 SusanEttenheim: hi are you hearing now?
21:04:35 JoelNYC: I'm waiting to be invited back to the Skype call
21:04:41 Suzie Boss: not yet
21:04:44 JoelNYC: <-- minecraft teacher
21:04:48 SusanEttenheim: yes joel we're calling in people slowly
21:04:55 JoelNYC: okay... I'll be patient  :)
21:05:02 Suzie Boss: oh, good now!
21:05:06 Paul Allison: Susan is getting on the server.
21:05:22 Paul Allison: suzie you are hearing us?
21:05:25 Nightrader: What audio channel do we listen to.
21:05:25 SusanEttenheim: ok great can everyone hear?
21:05:26 Suzie Boss: yes, thanks
21:05:33 melmcbride: no
21:05:38 blackram66: No
21:05:45 matt montagne: audio good
21:05:46 melmcbride: me fail noob teacher :)
21:05:56 Nightrader: Can you dig it?
21:06:01 Nightrader: Hehe
21:06:04 blackram66: lol
21:06:06 matt montagne: click the little speaker icon under EdTechTalk A in the upper right hand corner of the page
21:06:12 melmcbride: diggin with a diamond pickaxe!
21:06:18 melmcbride: 65 cuz I'm OP :)
21:06:43 SusanEttenheim: ok I'm going to bring a lot of other people in!
21:06:44 SusanEttenheim: now
21:07:00 Nightrader: It says I can not open it.
21:07:52 Nightrader: There we go!
21:07:55 Nightrader: Now it works
21:08:04 melmcbride: now working for me too
21:09:13 melmcbride: Gee is great. he gets it totally.
21:09:43 SusanEttenheim: hi how is everyone hearing?
21:09:48 [email protected]: super..
21:09:52 Suzie Boss: all good, Susan
21:09:56 melmcbride: sounds good
21:09:58 SusanEttenheim: I'm still going to call in joy and carol and coleen and melanie, right?
21:09:58 PoisonedAl: I'm getting noting
21:10:12 [email protected]: gee is great. everything is crytal clear from him
21:10:22 SusanEttenheim: poisondal what platform are you on tonight?
21:10:31 [email protected]: we could try Carol
21:10:46 matt montagne: just another 'TLA' Three Letter Acronym
21:11:02 [email protected]: immersed in gaming...not savvy...i want that
21:12:07 [email protected]: am interested in minecraft
21:13:04 Suzie Boss: Love idea of games in library
21:13:15 blackram66: nice...Nice a Ela teacher who plays games <3
21:13:26 SusanEttenheim: matt what is carol's skype username?
21:13:34 Nightrader: I love RPGs, I love making my own book style games.
21:13:37 SusanEttenheim: I mean janelle
21:14:01 [email protected]: that's what i wnat to hear
21:14:05 [email protected]: let me get it susan
21:14:18 SusanEttenheim: thank you I searched crevelle but didn't find her
21:14:29 blackram66: Awmg I wanna join that Club :/
21:14:49 SusanEttenheim: everyone in the chat - please introduce yourself! where and what do you teach?
21:14:57 [email protected]: crevelle
21:15:20 [email protected]: what does curriculum look like?
21:15:36 SusanEttenheim: hum ok thanks I tried that before will try again
21:15:41 SusanEttenheim: is she in the chat now?
21:15:51 [email protected]: no
21:15:54 melmcbride: Me: gamer, former new media producer, taught post sect & secondary media. now writing book/researching informal/situated learning with games (outside & inside school)
21:16:14 [email protected]: why minecraft?
21:16:23 Suzie Boss: Great example from Chad Sansing of what students can do in Minecraft: http://digitalis.nwp.org/resource/2458
21:16:29 Suzie Boss: Parthenon replica
21:16:30 Nightrader: Hello I am Nick M, I am a student at a school in WI. I am in my first year of middle school (5th) and have been enjoying gaming for my whole life.
21:16:39 melmcbride: yay Nick!
21:16:52 melmcbride: what's your fave game Nick?
21:16:58 SamanthaNMC: That's so great, Nick!
21:17:01 [email protected]: welcome, Nick!
21:17:08 Suzie Boss: Hi Nick, thanks for joining us!
21:17:11 Nightrader: Minecraft and Terraria.
21:17:12 SusanEttenheim: hi nick welcome
21:17:15 Nightrader: Thanks guys.
21:17:32 SusanEttenheim: how did you come to find us tonight?
21:18:06 Nightrader: I have always been best friends with my teacher this year and have been talking to him about this "Minecraft teaching"
21:18:28 Nightrader: I came here from learning about Joel from the Shaft podcast.
21:18:57 JoelNYC: thanks for coming, Nightrader!  :)
21:19:13 liamodonnell:   cool nightrader - have u played minecraft yet?
21:19:25 Nightrader: From alpha :)
21:19:28 matt montagne: 'cloud computing' is become the term dejour in much the same way that 'web 2.0' was
21:19:36 liamodonnell: nice :)
21:19:43 Nightrader: I do not remember from when I found it :)
21:19:44 [email protected]: true.
21:19:47 JoelNYC: ya but "cloud computing" actually means something more tangible
21:19:55 matt montagne: 'cloud computing' seems to be a term hatched from the marketeers
21:20:06 JoelNYC: "programs running on servers elsewhere"...  I was never sure what Web 2.0 meant
21:20:19 liamodonnell: i use it with fifth graders and it works well - but u know that already ;)
21:20:23 melmcbride: here here on policy
21:20:25 JoelNYC: but yes... it's a marketing term
21:20:28 melmcbride: and shooters need to be studied
21:20:33 melmcbride: because the students actually play them
21:20:35 [email protected]: true
21:20:38 Nightrader: I think that if kids have fun when learning, 1: they want to do it more/learn more 2: they have alot more fun and want to work harder to get (levels)
21:20:42 melmcbride: = dangerous things learning
21:20:46 Nightrader: "levels"'
21:20:53 melmcbride: mel will talk to this any time - why we ought to study shooters :)
21:20:56 PoisonedAl: FPS are cheaper to make, that's why there are so many
21:21:33 JoelNYC: if you want to study FPS players... go to QuakeCon
21:21:40 melmcbride: sure but fight/combat - targeting have historic and universal origins in natural play :)
21:21:42 JoelNYC: I'll be there running the official Minecraft server  :)
21:21:51 melmcbride: only place we allow combat in schools is onthe sports field :)
21:21:52 melmcbride: not in class.
21:22:11 melmcbride: yet combat is a standard "player style"
21:22:25 melmcbride: schools don't liek this part.
21:22:30 melmcbride: like even.
21:22:37 Nightrader: Call of Duty is stupid. We have to much war already. Why do we want to do it in a game. (Since the war REALLY happend, other FPS/ war games are different)
21:22:39 [email protected]: great question!!
21:22:51 melmcbride: lots of reasons Night :)
21:22:59 melmcbride: ever play chess? chess is war.
21:23:22 Nightrader: True :)
21:23:28 melmcbride: first thing kid asked about minecraft the other day was: can we kill each other :)
21:23:34 PoisonedAl: MW3: Red Dawn is considered stupid by most gamers, let alone anyone else
21:23:42 melmcbride: lol
21:24:10 Nightrader: I wonder if I can listen to this on my IPod....
21:24:14 Nightrader: One second :)
21:24:21 melmcbride: totally stupid and totally fun. that's the problem with fun. it's mostly stupid :
21:25:28 PoisonedAl: There's fun, and then there's pandering to right wing gun nut shut ins.
21:25:55 Nightrader: Hey guys it was great chatting with you. Hope to do this another time, going to listen to this on my IPod :D
21:26:08 [Action] Nightrader: waves
21:26:47 melmcbride: poison - all a matter of choice. I don't like shooters but I don't ask that my students like the same things I like.
21:26:57 melmcbride: that's a great opportunity for teachers to encourage critical thinking about these games.
21:27:41 melmcbride: I agree with you that they're stupid but it's also problematic for teachers to project their own judgments onto the cultures our students engage. it's a learning opp for both of us.
21:27:42 Suzie Boss: http://minecraftinschool.pbworks.com
21:27:49 [email protected]: thanks!
21:28:03 melmcbride: agree with chad.
21:28:07 SusanEttenheim: hi alex!
21:28:10 alexragone: Howdy folks!
21:28:15 alexragone: Hi Susan.
21:28:21 SusanEttenheim: are you done for the year>?
21:28:32 alexragone: Yep.
21:28:36 SusanEttenheim: sighhh
21:28:52 alexragone: Just wrapped today.  We've been bad at posting this year.  Have lots of editing to do!
21:29:00 alexragone: You guys are amazing!
21:29:12 SusanEttenheim: we're talking about gaming tonight
21:29:25 SusanEttenheim: waht have you been doing along those lines?
21:29:33 SusanEttenheim: oops typos!
21:29:40 melmcbride: whoever is talking I love what they're saying
21:30:06 Suzie Boss: Chad, what's site w/civics games?
21:30:48 alexragone: We've been experimenting a bit with minecraft in the afternoons.  Lots of Scratch in our Middle School.  Thinking of introducing gamestart mechanic next year.  We're also thinking of designing our Middle School tech curriculum based on game modules that the kids can work through independently... 
21:31:23 SusanEttenheim: alex - my animation class is presenting final games in a couple of weeks if you want to come by
21:31:28 SusanEttenheim: in Scratch
21:31:32 Suzie Boss: Alex--where do you teach?
21:31:40 [email protected]: wanna learn more about scratch
21:31:54 JoelNYC: hi Alex...  Joel from CGPS here
21:32:05 SusanEttenheim: go to scratch.mit.edu I highly recommend it!
21:32:20 melmcbride: scratch also great for early childhood education too
21:32:24 SusanEttenheim: joel where do you teach?
21:32:30 liamodonnell: http://minecraftinschoolpbworks.com - for anyone interested :)
21:32:49 Suzie Boss: at Imagine Cup this year, students design games that address UN development goals
21:32:50 SusanEttenheim: yes - actually more common for younger students although Harvard and Berkeley are using it now too
21:32:53 JoelNYC: Columbia Grammar & Preparatory School in NYC
21:33:13 alexragone: Hi Joel.  Thanks for helping Eric out...
21:33:22 alexragone: I'm at Collegiate School in NYC.
21:33:23 SusanEttenheim: joel - you work with alex??
21:33:37 SusanEttenheim: ohh I see
21:33:58 SusanEttenheim: joel I can invite you too then!
21:34:12 SusanEttenheim: we love having people from outside give feedback :)
21:34:16 alexragone: Susan -- what dates?
21:34:20 PoisonedAl: Most games surely would be the test themselves surely
21:34:27 SusanEttenheim: we were at the Apple Store at 5th Ave last night
21:34:47 SusanEttenheim: let me go look
21:35:22 alexragone: Here's some great info on scratch: http://learnscratch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=252&It...
21:36:11 SusanEttenheim: June 8, 10 and 13th are our final presentations
21:36:21 SusanEttenheim: yes and scratched.mit.edu
21:36:25 [email protected]: very cool. parthenon
21:36:36 SusanEttenheim: there's more there than you could use in years!
21:36:56 Suzie Boss: Here's Partnenon project: http://digitalis.nwp.org/resource/2458
21:37:06 Suzie Boss: It is awesome! I visited Chad's classroom recently
21:37:09 SusanEttenheim: ooohhhh thank you suzie!
21:37:22 SamanthaNMC: I love hearing from teachers! This is so great!
21:38:30 [email protected]: taxonomy of games
21:38:33 melmcbride: thank you had
21:38:35 melmcbride: chad
21:38:44 melmcbride: because we need some critical perspectives and unpack our assumptions
21:38:52 melmcbride: because a lot of teachers like achievement type nice good games
21:39:33 JoelNYC: Wait, what are you inviting me to?
21:39:42 JoelNYC: Susan?
21:39:45 Suzie Boss: Would be great to get student input on taxonomy of games
21:39:55 alexragone: @susan -- lots of end of year meetings those days.  will put them in my calendar and ping you for specifics when we get closer.  k?
21:40:03 SusanEttenheim: joel.. just inviting alex to come by and see our final Scratch games
21:40:03 melmcbride: productivity, performativity. narrow view of games.
21:40:05 SamanthaNMC: Teachers who want to submit gaming projects happening in your schools to appear in The NMC Horizon Project Navigator, please feel free to email [email protected]. We'd love to highlight gaming projects - even if they're experimental!
21:40:11 SusanEttenheim: but you are invited too... hehe
21:40:12 JoelNYC: ahh, okay
21:40:25 SusanEttenheim: k
21:40:33 JoelNYC: I have negative 300 spare time  ;)
21:41:09 SusanEttenheim: haha joel then you are really a teacher -- wink
21:41:29 JoelNYC: it's so funny since my background is actually as a techie
21:41:38 JoelNYC: that's still how I identify myself
21:41:46 JoelNYC: I ended up teaching by coming in the back door
21:41:51 melmcbride: me too joel
21:41:52 Suzie Boss: Liam, where are you located?
21:41:57 melmcbride: I wokred in interactive media for 10 years
21:42:07 liamodonnell: I'm in Toronto
21:42:10 liamodonnell: Canada
21:42:25 Suzie Boss: @lima gotcha!
21:42:29 SusanEttenheim: where melanie?
21:42:30 Suzie Boss: liam, sorry
21:43:50 liamodonnell: :)
21:44:01 SusanEttenheim: there are also some great webinars - once a month but they are archived so you can watch them at scratched.mit.edu and those are really great for the ideas of gaming
21:44:48 Suzie Boss: Have to run, but thanks for great conversation--will catch rest on recording
21:45:32 Suzie Boss: Have an Edutopia blog coming up on Imagine Cup games, including Jane McGonigal interview--posts next week, I think
21:46:07 SamanthaNMC: http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_better_world.html
21:46:26 SamanthaNMC: (great video by game master Jane on the impact of gaming)
21:46:56 SusanEttenheim: yes - thank you samantha - I even showed part of that to my students last year!
21:47:36 SamanthaNMC: :) It's one of my all-time favorite gaming presentations
21:48:03 SusanEttenheim: melanie I'd like to try to bring you into the skype call, what do you think?
21:48:12 melmcbride: I think ya
21:48:26 SusanEttenheim: ok you'll need to turn off the stream when I call you ok?
21:48:42 melmcbride: ok
21:49:35 [email protected]: would love to see a project document example
21:49:49 SusanEttenheim: hi o1 welcome!
21:49:55 JoelNYC: hi owen  :)
21:49:58 SusanEttenheim: where and what do you teach?
21:50:24 o1kenobi: Hi. I don't teach, but I work at the Spence School.
21:50:35 SusanEttenheim: welcome!
21:51:04 PoisonedAl: Spawning a whole class of Yahtzee's
21:51:28 [email protected]: wow that's a lot to ponder
21:51:43 SamanthaNMC: Janelle, you can check out http://navigator.nmc.org/projects
21:51:54 [email protected]: thank you!!!
21:52:08 SamanthaNMC: Feel free to email me and [email protected] if you have a project you want to share and I can get the process rolling for ya :)
21:52:13 SamanthaNMC: *at
21:52:45 [email protected]: you might be sorry you extended that invitation! thanks!
21:52:58 SamanthaNMC: I'm excited!
21:55:13 [email protected]: love that!!! I've got to put myself in the context and position of a gamer!!
21:56:18 melmcbride: I'm going to share a link to my post on why teachers should "noob i tup"
21:56:25 [email protected]: what's that site? icivics?
21:56:41 [email protected]: @melanie yes please
21:58:05 melmcbride: http://melaniemcbride.net
21:58:14 melmcbride: the five most recent posts
21:58:32 melmcbride: if anybody is interested - I wanted to say something about Bartle's Player Types
21:58:45 melmcbride: achiever, socializer, killer, etc - and why this competition happens in class
21:58:50 melmcbride: and how we ought ot think about that
21:59:19 alexragone: Evoke!
21:59:36 melmcbride: we need to understand player types as
22:00:06 melmcbride: similar to differentiated learning styles
22:00:11 JoelNYC: omg yes, melanie...
22:00:16 melmcbride: we focus entirely on achiever type
22:00:17 melmcbride: in school
22:00:22 melmcbride: school is all about acheive
22:00:23 JoelNYC: the whole Spade Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs concept
22:00:32 melmcbride: but socializers, explorers and killers are let down
22:00:34 SamanthaNMC: Hexagon Story shortlink: http://go.nmc.org/aneal
22:00:38 JoelNYC: I see it played out in exquisite detail every day with Minecraft
22:00:42 melmcbride: as a player who pvps I have to say that pvp is a very thrilling form of gameplay
22:00:55 melmcbride: but we need to ecnourage the other player types
22:01:07 melmcbride: explorers, socializers, etc. and I'm sure Joel builds in experiences fo rthem
22:01:20 melmcbride: then the competition piece can mellow out a bit :)
22:02:16 melmcbride: there's actually an online test for Bartle's Player Types
22:02:23 melmcbride: you can take it to see what type of player type you are
22:02:35 SusanEttenheim: cool url melanie?
22:02:35 JoelNYC: Explorers, Socializers and achievers are "easy" to create content for
22:02:36 melmcbride: it's based on MUDS but it's very applicable to a variety of play and game genres
22:02:41 JoelNYC: Killers are more of a challenge
22:02:49 melmcbride: Joel - ttalk to me about that one
22:02:59 melmcbride: they have  special place in my heart - we can engage them meaningfully
22:03:09 melmcbride: tough for sure because often they are aggressive BUT
22:03:11 JoelNYC: they do like to blow up TNT in Minecraft  :)
22:03:17 melmcbride: we totally accept it on the sports field
22:03:21 JoelNYC: which can be used for good or evil
22:03:43 melmcbride: can't paste link but Joel
22:03:49 melmcbride: see most recent post here on blowing stuff up
22:03:54 melmcbride: http://melaniemcbride.net
22:04:08 JoelNYC: will do!
22:04:10 Randall: @melmcbride - I read somewhere that most game players are killers
22:04:12 SusanEttenheim: thank you
22:04:31 melmcbride: not really randall
22:04:40 melmcbride: we're all a little bit of everything
22:04:48 melmcbride: sometimes social, sometimes acheiver. but usually mostly one thing
22:05:06 melmcbride: also just because people are playing a shooter doesn't mean they are enging in combat - they may call it socializing
22:05:28 SusanEttenheim: hi scienceguyorg welcome!
22:05:37 PoisonedAl: Is someone in the background summoning cthulhu?
22:05:56 scienceguyorg: Hello, just stumbled in here off of a Twitter link
22:06:59 SusanEttenheim: welcome - where and what do you teach?
22:07:14 SusanEttenheim: we're just finishing up for tonight but it will be posted as a podcast
22:07:24 SusanEttenheim: both at teachersteachingteachers.org and edtechtalk.com
22:07:26 Randall: @melmcbride - yes, i think you're right.  i think the article was about a survey of game players, so probably a lot of hardcore gamers voted for killer.
22:08:07 scienceguyorg: Teaching science projects like mousetrap cars, model airplanes, and water rockets is my hobby.
22:09:35 melmcbride: thing about killers is
22:09:50 melmcbride: if you look up Bartle  - what they're doing isn't often killing. it's maybe a chess play style
22:10:21 melmcbride: it's maybe about tactics. its maybe socializing. people have a lot of misconceptions about what youth/kids are doing when they engage in combat style play. a lot of it is simply targeting :)
22:10:37 melmcbride: fine motor skills, hand eye. lots of great brain function involved actually.
22:11:19 melmcbride: and for girls - it can be empowering. for me I learned how to play offensively . rather than defensively (which is how we're socialized)
22:12:04 o1kenobi: I love a good shooter, but since I started playing Minecraft, that's all I've wanted to play. THere's so much more to it.
22:12:16 melmcbride: me too! I heart minecraft
22:12:30 melmcbride: I don't even like shooters but I defend the players
22:12:34 Randall: @melmcbride - I'll look forward to your article on player types
22:12:45 melmcbride: it will never get published :)
22:13:03 melmcbride: lol
22:13:26 melmcbride: you guys all rawk!
22:17:30 SusanEttenheim: goodnight all!