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Conversations Show 28 03 08 2009

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  • Length: 64:30 minutes (29.53 MB)
  • Format: MP3 Stereo 44kHz 64Kbps (CBR)

Lisa recently returned from the Celebration of Teaching and Learning Conference in NYC. She shared her impressions and was joined by Karen Janowski who also attended the conference. The conversation continued in a discussion about creativity and how it is addressed in schools. Do schools kill creativity? Listen to the show to hear the conversation. As always, the chat room was rocking!

Chat Log

11:20:36 Lisa Parisi: Hello Bob
11:21:34 Bob Caro: Morning  ... I'll be ready when you guys start
11:25:27 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Ernie
11:25:39 ernie easter: Hi Lisa
11:26:42 ernie easter: Just uploading some TwitPics of view from my front porch. Old man winter still going strong up here in northern Maine.
11:27:45 Lisa Parisi: We're having a glorious day on Long island.
11:28:03 Bob Caro: Sunny and windy on the South Texas Coast
11:28:06 ernie easter: I've heard about shorts and tank tops in NC
11:28:56 Lisa Parisi: Temp is 52 today
11:29:20 Lisa Parisi: Starting the stream now
11:29:37 Lisa Parisi: ETT A and Ustream are going
11:29:45 ernie easter: We are mid 30s & stopped snowing not that long ago. another 3"
11:31:20 Lisa Parisi: Hello Peggy and enigami
11:31:33 Lisa Parisi: Stream is started...
11:31:51 PeggyG: Good morning everyone. Had to adjust to the time change today
11:32:14 nhill: Morning everyone
11:32:30 enigami: Hi Lisa
11:32:54 KarenJan: Hi everyone!
11:33:16 annelisewojo: Good morning everyone.
11:33:25 Lisa Parisi: http://thirteencelebration.org/
11:33:28 Sheila: Hi All!
11:33:35 annelisewojo: Thanks for tweeting the startup of these talks.  It's a nice reminder.
11:33:41 MariaK: Hello everyone - thank you for joining us today
11:34:11 MariaK: Lisa and karen have lots to tell us about this conference
11:34:34 nhill: Love him!
11:34:35 Lisa Parisi: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creati...
11:34:36 PeggyG: Does that conference stream or record any of their sessions? Sounds fantastic!
11:34:43 Bob Caro: King of the TED talks
11:35:20 Sarah S: His book, The Element, is written just the way he speaks - it's very entertaining.
11:37:10 Bob Caro: Much better way of having a conference - I never hear speakers because I don't want o miss any workshop opportunities
11:37:21 Sarah S: FYI Marco Torres is the keynote for the Maine ACTEM  conference in October.
11:37:43 MariaK: @sarah - very cool - I'll be there!
11:37:50 ernie easter: Hi Sarah - I'm looking forward to it.
11:38:00 PeggyG: Marco Torres is a model of creativity! I enjoy learning from him! He's so personable and accessible.
11:38:15 Bob Caro: I need to know how Maine pulled off the statewide one-to-one laptop project
11:38:56 Sarah S: @Bob  We had a governor (Angus King) with a vision, a slight surplus, and Seymour Papert living in the state . . .
11:39:26 Bob Caro: I'm writing a grant to do just one grade level at one school (8th grade-180 students)
11:39:29 Sarah S: @Bob - that's a slight simplification, but they were key components.
11:39:50 PeggyG: Is the conference highly sponsored to be able to afford such renowned speakers?
11:39:54 ernie easter: Along with Bette Manchester as the PD visionary
11:39:56 Sarah S: @Bob Think about netbooks too, to keep your cost down.
11:40:13 Sarah S: @Ernie - Right! I can't forget Bette's contributions.
11:40:23 Bob Caro: Definitely - Dell netbooks are on my list
11:40:32 ernie easter: The main thing in Maine has been the PD that went along with it.
11:40:33 Sheila: @bob caro - Our school is about to do one grade level too.
11:41:02 Bob Caro: I'm more worried about teacher support than student acceptance
11:41:23 jackiegerstein: http://teachingwithted.pbwiki.com/Sir-Ken-Robinson%3A-Do-Schools-Kill-Cr...
11:41:54 Bob Caro: The grant app requires 25% of budget set aside for teacher staff development
11:42:00 jackiegerstein: I'm jealous
11:42:08 Sarah S: @Bob supporting them with PD is really key. Give them time to get comfortable with the technology - maybe they can get netbook for the teachers in June so they can learn over the summer??
11:42:23 Bob Caro: afk - but listening...
11:42:55 jackiegerstein: http://thirteencelebration.org/blog/speakers/speakers/108/
11:42:55 Sarah S: Silly Google . . .should have highlighted the GCT work being done in the classroom - it would have been a great addition.
11:43:06 lorenchuk: Which conference?
11:43:07 ernie easter: Hi Tim - The County well represented.
11:43:13 TimLevesque: Hi hi
11:43:17 Sarah S: OH! So they did have them around.  Great!
11:43:21 Lisa Parisi: Celebration of Teaching and Learning
11:43:24 PeggyG: How was Henry Gates? Heard him talk about his Lincoln documentary recently on the PBS webcast with futureofeducation and was so impressed with him.
11:43:30 TimLevesque: figured I'd pop in while my pizza cooks
11:43:32 lorenchuk: @Lisa where was it?
11:43:37 Lisa Parisi: NYC
11:43:52 lorenchuk: Saw that on Twitter!
11:44:07 jackiegerstein: http://teachingwithted.pbwiki.com/Sir-Ken-Robinson%3A-Do-Schools-Kill-Cr...
11:44:21 lorenchuk: Google Academy is taking a break it seems
11:45:17 jackiegerstein: Clapping
11:45:49 lorenchuk: How schools do what to creativity? Missed the verb
11:46:18 KarenJan: kill creativity
11:46:36 lorenchuk: Teachers know that of course, thanks @KarenJan
11:47:31 Maureen: I would like to see creativity in schools defined more broadly than it seems to be in my school. When you talk about creativity, it seems to be isolated to "the arts".
11:47:34 Sarah S: Also, he asked Who thinks they are an artist?
11:47:38 TimLevesque: someone should fix the stream link so it opens in a different window:P
11:47:44 Sarah S: Or, Who thingks they are creative?
11:47:52 jackiegerstein: @lorenchuk "kill"
11:48:06 enigami: Can the current crop of teachers bring creativity back?  Can the "gold star" students who become teachers and then reproduce their experience be in charge or bringing creativity back?
11:48:26 nhill: I know at Middle school when you ask students to be creative they say..."I don't know what to do"
11:48:35 enigami: Hi IQs have trouble with the paper clip Q also
11:48:37 Sarah S: @nhill That's what kills me. . .
11:48:58 PeggyG: That would be an interesting question to ask every few uears to see how the answers change once they have conformed to schooling
11:49:06 jackiegerstein: Industrial  model  - widget mentality
11:49:11 Sarah S: They don't know what to do because they think there is A thing to do - and they haven't been told what it is yet. Yikes.
11:49:13 Maureen: @nhill I find that if I don't adequately structure lessons, give more open-ended ways to express- kids sit there and want more guidance.
11:49:18 lorenchuk: Thanks @jackiegerstein.
11:49:24 jackiegerstein: :)
11:49:30 Lisa Parisi: http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/02/creativit...
11:49:43 nhill: @Maureen  I agree.
11:49:44 enigami: Maria can you crank up you volume a bit?
11:49:49 Sarah S: Bill tweets great things.
11:49:54 lorenchuk: Students also want to know the right answer, yes.  We have to reteach them to think on their own.  Problem solve/innovate
11:49:58 dlaufenberg: i call it the 'culture of one right answer', so dangerous.
11:50:08 MariaK: @enigami - just my volume?
11:50:24 MariaK: I'm moving closer to the mic
11:50:29 Brendan Murphy: Do you ever ask your students to give their worst guess?
11:50:30 PeggyG: Bill Ferriter is fantastic! Just published an article in Ed Leadership about Learning with Blogs and Wikis
11:50:47 enigami: Teachers don't want creativity--they might then have 25 different assignments being handed in...o my gosh...total chaos!!!!
11:50:55 jackiegerstein: Also see Ewen McIntosh's blog on it - http://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/2009/02/ken-robinsons-the-element-reincarn...
11:50:56 ms108: I also find kids (at first) sit there.  They've ben trained to know they have to find the right answer.  You just have to smile at them and say, "I don't know what you're going to do.  That's a good question."  And then just keep giving them the smile until they start working.  :)
11:51:11 Ann-NJTechTeacher: Good morning. I won't be able to stay too long.
11:51:25 Maureen: I think algorithms are good things- but if we let the kids explain how they are thinking thru a project/problem- open up that side of the conversation- we get to explore how the kids learn, not just what they learn.
11:51:27 KarenJan: great to see you @ann!
11:51:31 Lisa Parisi: Hi Ann...want to come into the skype call?
11:51:32 dlaufenberg: there is a great book with tons of history and stats and research that talks about the assessment situation we find ourselves in... Grading Education
11:51:35 brachsmith: I notice when I give kids an "open" type of assignment to allow creativity...so many just want to be "done".
11:51:37 Lisa Parisi: We're talking about the conference
11:51:46 brachsmith: Does anyone else get that?
11:51:48 jackiegerstein: Teachers need to come from a different pedaogical foundation -are the teachers being creative?
11:52:02 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa Not today. I have a lot going on around me.
11:52:10 Sarah S: @maureen Good Point! the self reflection on learning is key for the student and for the teacher to understand what's going on and be a more effective guide on the side.
11:52:17 PeggyG: @dlaufenberg-Grading Education sounds very interesting-author?
11:52:24 dlaufenberg: i think core curriculum is dangerous.  scripted, regimented lessons.  total kill joy for learning
11:52:34 dlaufenberg: @peggyG  Richard Rothstein
11:52:37 MariaK: Good mornng Woodenmask - glad you could join us John
11:52:45 lorenchuk: Project based learning and cross-curriculur units, teachers collaborating - leads to creativity
11:52:48 woodenmask: Thank you Mariea
11:52:52 PeggyG: teachers aren't usually rewarded for creativity--only academic results
11:52:53 woodenmask: Maria, rather
11:53:03 MariaK: we're talking about creativity - does school kill creativity?
11:53:06 Maureen: @sarahs- I've seen your rubrics for your art students- they are great. We need more time built in to reflect- kids and teachers
11:53:16 Bob Caro: The way "schooling" is assessed is getting in the way of creativity and learning
11:53:20 Brendan Murphy: curriculum tends to focus on skills that are easily measurable
11:53:31 ms108: Teachers are rewarded for creativity.  By the energy of their students who are enjoying the learning.
11:53:34 PeggyG: that would be a great future topic on the show--is schooling interfering with learning :-)
11:54:00 jackiegerstein: Youtube video from a young man - When you take schooling out of education - fantastic!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=999ZEf2EpHg
11:54:00 Bob Caro: @ms108 - that and a dime will get you a cup of coffee and no points on your appraisal
11:54:03 Sarah S: It's certainly true at the 9-12 level here!
11:54:24 Sarah S: They want to do what the teacher wants - no clue about what they want . . .
11:54:39 Maureen: I just emailed my head of school this morning asking for workshops on both UBD and UDL. We need to change the way we do things and really look at what we want the kids to get out of it.
11:54:52 dlaufenberg: @lisa i found having my students for two years in a row really helped to establish the habits of mind that push creative and critical thinking
11:54:59 lorenchuk: There are many schools working from a new place but they are still being held to the standardized tests so it is a dichotomy
11:55:13 Bob Caro: Dr. Kathy Koch has a great presentation on specific praise
11:55:16 brachsmith: Am I done?
11:55:19 lorenchuk: ask 3 then me
11:55:20 brachsmith: Am I finished yet?
11:55:26 enigami: This conversation usually rotates around the school "system," curriculum, administrative rules...what about the teachers?  Is this an individual teacher problem?  The type of people that are attracted to the profession?
11:55:27 PeggyG: great question Karen-I found that university students mainly wanted to know what to do and get it done with the least amount of effort. Not inspired by the learning but getting an A and completing the assignments.
11:55:41 ms108: @Bob - And if I'm fired, then so be it.  If I'm not teaching in a way that is meaningful, I really don't want to do it anyway.
11:55:42 KarenJan: http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm
11:55:56 brachsmith: I always ask...I don't know...are you done?
11:56:13 TimLevesque: @ms108 I wish that all teachers had that viewpoint..
11:56:19 brachsmith: I ask...are you proud of your own work?  Is this something you want the world to see?
11:56:37 Lisa Parisi: Does anyone else want to join the skype call?
11:57:00 jackiegerstein: Sir Ken - talked of the blue school as a good model - http://www.theblueschool.org/
11:57:14 enigami: Is it a problem with being creative?  or fear of taking a risk and making a mistake?  Why would you do something that would have a negative impact on your almighty grade?
11:57:30 PeggyG: there is so much concern these days about safety for kids that they rarely get to go outside and just play--always closely supervised
11:57:39 Maureen: My 8th graders will state flat out- they work for the grade. I asked them to go back over their projects that they just turned in and fix typos... they wanted to know if it would up their grade. I said no, it was the right thing to do and they really did not want to do it.
11:58:01 ms108: @Tim -  I agree that many teachers get hung up on what that "test" will say about them.  I just wish more people understood that the test and its methods aren't valid, so how can it possibly say anything about them?
11:58:05 Bob Caro: @enigami - we train students to become more correct - but isn't that opposite of creativity?
11:58:08 Sarah S: Creativity as a function of risk taking is part of the issue - kids are less willing to take a risk.  Failure as a function of risk taking is high stakes instead of a learning opportunity, part of the learning process to be embraced.
11:58:14 jimw: lost my sound
11:58:16 jackiegerstein: Jonathan Kozol also speaks of letting children be children
11:58:27 enigami: Maria you like to play so you have your kids play...do your other teachers like to "play?"
11:58:43 TimLevesque: Another big problem is..parental understanding of creative teaching measures
11:58:46 lorenchuk: Great point!
11:58:48 Sarah S: @enigami This is play, right? :)
11:58:56 jackiegerstein: Good point enigami - adults need to play!
11:59:01 enigami: play...yes
11:59:11 Maureen: When I ask teachers to play with new tools- it is something very foreign for them... they want a written set of directions.
11:59:18 Brendan Murphy: http://www.nysun.com/editorials/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-subway-alone
11:59:47 MariaK: @enigami - not all the teachers can do this - not sure why - but they feel there are "too many things to teach" in their day - I find ways to see the learning and bring the learning to play!
11:59:49 brachsmith: Doors were locked until 5:00 for dinner...funny!
11:59:50 Sheila: @Maureen - I've seen that too!
12:00:02 ms108: I agree that grades kill creativity.  I don't give any grades until the end of the quareter.  Up until that point, it's more of a "You're on track with this" or "How did you get that idea?"  or "That seems like level 1 thinking.  Can you take it to a level 3?"
12:00:16 Bob Caro: @Brendan - Love that article
12:00:27 LindaN: I made sure that my children had free play time
12:00:30 lorenchuk: Neighborhoods changed thus the need for dates
12:00:35 Maureen: Playdates are a new thing... my kids didn't have them. They went outside. Now kids have social calendars
12:00:50 Bob Caro: Risk takers have already had some kind of losses, and realize that it's not the end of the world
12:00:50 LindaN: it was interesting that they would go out and find no one in the neighborhood to play with
12:00:53 TimLevesque: @ms108 how do you deal with questions from parents on this..how do you go about making them understand that you're not being subjective?
12:01:14 Bob Caro: risk takers can deal with being incorrect, and that it's a part of learning
12:01:18 dlaufenberg: i think some of that is motivated by fear and the other is that some teachers trust that the test is valid and preparing for it is a real priority.
12:01:21 jackiegerstein: Need to also readjust teacher education programs
12:01:33 Bob Caro: I encourage persistence
12:01:33 lorenchuk: I think it teacher training programs need to evolve as well
12:01:41 Lisa Parisi: @Bob I am the ultimate non-risky person...except in the classroom
12:01:44 enigami: Saftey lisa, we do it when we feel safe.
12:01:46 LindaN: I think we tend to be learners- not people that just show what they have learned
12:01:47 Sarah S: @Bob Right! We need to support risk taking - and the subsequent failures that happen occasionally - in the classroom.
12:01:48 brachsmith: Safe
12:02:09 brachsmith: There needs to be balance
12:02:10 Bob Caro: @Lisa - read the article that Brandon linked to
12:02:16 dlaufenberg: but lets not forget that some schools and teachers feel incredibly threatened by the sanctions imposed by nclb that drive some of the myopic focus on regimented learning
12:02:27 Sarah S: @brachsmith Safe but not failure-proof.
12:02:32 lorenchuk: The system has to encourage risk taking
12:02:37 Lisa Parisi: Yes, Diana...very threatened
12:02:40 LindaN: They also gain security and safety by accepting the curriculum as rules
12:02:43 Maureen: The first time I did a wiki- it wasn't great and had to explain to parents what the goals were and what we all learned from the project. But it was OK...some parents got it
12:02:45 Bob Caro: Everyone (not just students) need to develop a way to measure possible risks vs possible rewards
12:02:47 brachsmith: @sarah s I agree completely
12:02:53 jackiegerstein: Perceived rish is very different than actual risk
12:03:00 jackiegerstein: risk
12:03:16 lorenchuk: true @jackiegerstein
12:03:17 Brendan Murphy: I think some teachers are afraid to let students explore because they aren't completely comfortable with their own grasp of the subject
12:03:22 Sheila: True!
12:03:24 dlaufenberg: and when we develop a system that is basically a reaction to threats, the real learning is not happening... gamesmanship is happening
12:03:27 jimw: still no sound
12:03:48 Brendan Murphy: @jimw try clicking the ustream on the right
12:03:53 jackiegerstein: Emphasize many ways and methods to reach the outcomes
12:04:00 Bob Caro: @jimw - click the "Listening Help Here" link on the right side of the page
12:04:17 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @jimw try one of the other three streaming buttons. Sometimes one works better than the other for me.
12:04:22 ms108: @Tim-I explain in a letter and open house what I do.  I send home reports with their report cards that explain where they are on track and where they need to explore more.  The 1st quarter I get some parents who aren't quite comfortable with it. But by the second quarter all is calm and quiet.  And I've received a lot of positive feedback on it.
12:04:23 jimw: ok bck]
12:04:31 jackiegerstein: Use the Google 20% rule - have teachers and students spend 20% of their tiime working on their own passions
12:04:49 Sarah S: I talk about failures all the time in PD sessions with teachers - they need to know that it isnt flawless even for those who do it regularly.
12:04:57 jimw: thanks Bob C
12:05:14 Lisa Parisi: Jim, can you hear on ustream?  Click on the big arrow in the picture
12:05:17 enigami: Great conversation--have to go.  enigami = imagine
12:05:24 Maureen: @Brendan Murphy- one piece of my job is teaching computer to gr 6-9... I will never fully grasp everything..even it did stay the same for a year or two. I tell the kids that my way of doing things is just one way and they can share other ways. I introduce a list of new things that I haven't even tried and offer them to kids to learn and teach us.
12:05:24 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa He said it was the principal leading the discussion.
12:05:30 jimw: im ok Lisa
12:05:35 ms108: @Brendan - I agree.  Teachers have to be open to saying, "I don't know the answer to that question.  Go find it."   Or "Let's find that together."
12:05:42 Sarah S: Failure is still a step forward if it's trying new things. It's the Thomas Edison model - now I know one more way it doesn't work. :)
12:05:42 dlaufenberg: this is something that I put together to talk about accepting and embracing the role of failure in schools... http://www.slideshare.net/dlaufenberg/embracing-failure
12:05:44 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa The principal made them feel safe.
12:05:48 TimLevesque: @ms108 see I work in a small community where keeping the families content is very important..our administration is so paranoid of ticking off the wrong people ..they're scared of any kind of change like that
12:05:49 lorenchuk: we have that at our school, we use the rounds model of inviting other teachers in for help
12:05:50 Bob Caro: My wife's a teacher and "school talk" is not allowed - at my school, it's the only time to collaborate - go figger
12:06:05 Bob Caro: ...at lunchtime
12:06:12 nhill: I don't go to the faculty room either
12:06:22 Maureen: @Tim do you teach at a private school? Sounds like my school.
12:06:22 MariaK: @enigami very clever name btw
12:06:26 Brendan Murphy: @maureen @ms108 but too many are afraid to let go of that control.
12:06:29 TimLevesque: I have to take off, if i dont make it back before the end of the show..I'd like to keep discussions going Twitter=timmahlevesque
12:06:29 Sarah S: @Dlaufenberg - nice slideshare! thanks for putting in the link.
12:06:30 Bob Caro: Administrators establish the culture in the school
12:07:02 TimLevesque: @maureen no..it's public..but it functions very much like a private school :)
12:07:03 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @MariaK That's my feeling
12:07:35 Brendan Murphy: Critical thinking instead of memorization
12:07:55 ms108: @Tim - I started this two years ago (on my own without administration "permission").  It just feels right to me. Antoher teacher is kind of doing it with me now.  All of the the other teachers are traditional.  I'm not sure admin would go for a school wide change.  But this is how I have to do it.
12:08:06 KarenJan: great conversation in the chat!
12:08:25 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa Again, they have to look at the gains in reading scores in your group last year.
12:08:30 LindaN: I have lunch with a friend/colleague each week to talk about learning in our classrooms.
12:08:38 dlaufenberg: and here are the links that feed the embracing failure slideshow... http://colearning.wikispaces.com/Embracing+Failure
12:08:39 KarenJan: so how can we promote creativity in our own schools? is it possible to change the individual school culture?
12:08:39 Sarah S: @ms108 Me too - I just do things and try to support others as they want to make changes.
12:08:43 Lisa Parisi: Yes, Ann, the numbers...the data...prove the point
12:09:02 Lisa Parisi: Thanks, Diana, for that link.
12:09:28 LindaN: Yes, I think it is possible to promote creativity in each of our schools.
12:09:38 Ann-NJTechTeacher: I think in Kindergarten the "artsy" classroom is important to me as a parent for my children.
12:09:51 Sarah S: We need to keep the importance of creativity at the forefront - keep it visible/audible in terms of how important it is for learners overall success in life.
12:10:06 ms108: @Karen - I do things. I talk about them excitedly, as in "My kids are amazing me..."  Others hear.  And some start to do.  I think it's sort of chain reaction as they see the possibilities.  At least I hope so.
12:10:44 ms108: @Karen - Although I do still get "My students could never do that." from other teachers.
12:10:45 lorenchuk: @ms108 - sometimes we have to be the model, take a risk and share the positives and be honest about the negatives
12:10:56 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Karen I've been trying to pull classroom teachers into my online projects. A year later, they're eager to help again with the project. Perhaps it takes pulling others into our projects.
12:11:03 Sarah S: We have to push the wave. Act, talk, promote, and of course this kind of support for each other and promotion to others is great. I'll be sending the link to this podcast to several other people . . .
12:11:05 jimw: and not pressurize teachers work Sarah
12:11:41 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Karen My 2nd grade teacher wanted to be a part of helping with the monster project and the 7th grade teacher is excited about 1001 Flat Tales again.
12:12:00 Sarah S: @jimw Share it as potential, as options, as opportunities - they'll see the energy there, eventually.
12:12:09 dlaufenberg: everyone seems to be consumed by data... we need to keep educating ourselves about the research as well as sharing the anecdotals
12:12:36 ernie easter: How do we restore creativity in the classroom?  Can NCLB & Standards based education.  Go towards projects and project based learning where curriculum is integrated.
12:12:57 Lisa Parisi: http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/02/creativit...
12:13:03 LindaN: Here is a great site for helping others understand creativity and promoting it in our classrooms www.coe.uga.edu/torrance
12:13:07 Brendan Murphy: I have rediscovered my passion for teaching thourgh following folks on twitter and reading blogs, flat classroom project etc....
12:13:09 Sarah S: @dlaufenberg  Good point. Data will be what will add to the admin support.
12:13:14 PeggyG: teaching with creativity requires a lot more work on the part of teachers--much harder than following the curriculum/textbook and last year's lessons plans
12:13:21 dlaufenberg: I think the Barry Schwartz vid on wisdom is a great way to shake people out of the funk... no one disputes what he is saying and yet we are creating educational spaces that do not support gaining/fostering wisdom
12:13:27 ms108: I think we also need to have a clear understanding of what school is for.  And what defines success.  When  child leaves 12th grade, what is it that we want?
12:13:41 jackiegerstein: http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/SEMR/ - Schoolwide Enrichment Reading - the research
12:13:45 ernie easter: Having self contained classrooms up through grade 8. Not teach individual subjects
12:13:47 lorenchuk: @BrendanMurphy yes twitter brought me here, lots of great folks to find and share with here
12:14:04 ms108: @Peggy - Exactly.  Way more work to be creative and open to real learning!!
12:14:15 dlaufenberg: friedman wrote today about the 'great disruption' that is coming in the econ./env./bus. world....
12:14:32 dlaufenberg: maybe the economic downturn will allow for a great disuption in educaiton as well
12:14:40 jackiegerstein: http://www.infinitethinking.org/
12:14:50 lorenchuk: I teach high school, do others find it more difficult to be creative with younger or older students or is there no difference?
12:14:55 Sarah S: Throw out half the curriculum breadth and then go deep on the things that matter with process, projects, constructing the learning.
12:15:19 Sarah S: Subversive! Go @LisaP
12:15:22 dlaufenberg: @lisaP you and me both... there is great potential in the school as community center... but, we need to make it make sense for teachers, students and parents
12:15:27 Brendan Murphy: @lorenchuck I like younger because it is easire to reach across subjects when you are the only teacher
12:15:29 lorenchuk: New Schools Project, Learn and Earn, HS redesign etc.  lots of stuff going on
12:15:30 ernie easter: I teach 7th & 8th graders all subjects.  I get to integrate subjects and technology. If I want to teach science or social studies or reading or math for a morning I can.
12:15:46 porchdragon: I totally agree with going after every award
12:15:50 Sarah S: Share what you are doing - it needs to be visible to others.
12:15:54 jackiegerstein: Self promotion is difficult
12:16:06 PeggyG: excellent point dlaufenberg! we may be "forced" to come up with very creative ways to teach based on what we can afford
12:16:19 ernie easter: Yes Sarah - share!
12:16:22 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa It's like technology adaption. It won't take over education until it gets "boring" to us - just like cell phones and Twitter to some degree now.
12:16:30 Maureen: @Brendan I think that the specialism in schools lends itself to everyone only teaching a little piece- hard to do PBL when you see the kids once a week
12:16:43 porchdragon: my wife @Turrean calls it SSP shameless-self-promotion and we as teacher don't doi it much but we need to do it MUCH more
12:16:44 KarenJan: what happens when you are subversive in your schools?
12:16:52 lorenchuk: @brendan murphy, I have taught all levels, we need to add to the high school with as many content areas as you can
12:17:33 jackiegerstein: Can't use the practices until we understand the "practice"
12:17:44 dlaufenberg: friedman article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/opinion/08friedman.html?em
12:17:46 Maureen: @maria- you so lucky to get to go to so many conferences! My school has no $, everything is coming out of pocket now
12:17:47 Sheila: @KarenJan - you get the rolled eyes for one! And sometimes followed by a smile.
12:17:54 Sarah S: Subversive can be really positive - I wanted Google Docs to be used throughout the district, so I convinced the curriculum coordinator to have the curriculum docs available that way.  Now everyone in the district, even those unlikely to try it otherwise, is on Google Docs. Step one. Slightly subversive.
12:17:58 lorenchuk: The November Learning Conference in Boston, Building Learning Communities, is an excellent example for new creativity in the classroom
12:18:21 ms108: Have to go.  Thanks for the conversation.
12:18:29 MariaK: http://www.antiochne.edu/acsr/events/acsr_event_detail.cfm?Event_ID=103
12:18:30 KarenJan: bye @ms108
12:18:51 dlaufenberg: i found, when I worked in AZ, that being practical often worked as well as being subversive.  teachers love practicality.
12:19:04 lorenchuk: @Sarah S, I did the same thing by approaching the tech person with the Letters to the President on NWP site.  They allowed it on one mobile cart - a start!
12:19:12 KarenJan: does practicality promote learning?
12:19:22 Sarah S: @dlaufenberg Exactly.  Show how it will save time, make something more efficient.
12:19:25 KarenJan: @sarahs - it's a start
12:19:39 dlaufenberg: practicality... meaning... show the value of a tool/approach to their own learning... and it was finding its way into the classroom
12:19:51 MariaK: @maureen - I pay for all the conferences I attend. We ran out of $$ in September .
12:20:03 Sarah S: @karenjan Practicality might mean they will try it - and once they try it you can help lead them to transformative use in the classroom
12:20:06 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Sarah S You're right. I put the tablet reservation form on Google Forms. Now everyone checks the Google Docs spreadsheet to see if they will be available.
12:20:18 Maureen: @ Maria I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse;-)
12:20:27 KarenJan: @sarahs - yes, i see it can be a starting point
12:20:31 porchdragon: the problem with awards are that they are not promoted very well. We need a clearinghouse for all the awards out there
12:20:46 lorenchuk: Multimedia in the classroom, who awarded it?
12:20:57 KarenJan: how many of you are able to collaborate with your colleagues in your school?
12:20:59 Maureen: @ Maria- I will see if I can get someone to go to Greenfield... I went to the center school years back to do my responsive classroom courses.
12:21:01 Ann-NJTechTeacher: @Lisa ... or how many submissions did they get?
12:21:06 Sarah S: @porchdragon True! I'd love to have one place to find the things to apply to. I always hear about them about two days before the deadline.
12:21:09 ernie easter: You'll need to get the info out. Never saw the Multimedia award.
12:21:11 PeggyG: Lisa you should become a mentor to encourage and help people apply for the award next year :-)
12:21:35 Maureen: @KarenJan- no, there is no time for collaboration
12:21:45 lorenchuk: Yes, but others might not know about it
12:21:48 Ann-NJTechTeacher: I thought the same thing when I heard that.
12:22:07 MariaK: http://thirteencelebration.org/ Conference link , once again.
12:22:10 Ann-NJTechTeacher: You said it was tri-state teachers
12:22:16 Lisa Parisi: The Human Spark
12:22:32 jackiegerstein: http://thirteencelebration.org/blog/bios/alan-alda/459/
12:22:34 ernie easter: It sounds like something I'd like to apply for next year.
12:22:41 Ann-NJTechTeacher: It was hands down the best set of speakers!
12:22:46 Lisa Parisi: Ann, the winners do have to be from the tri-state area.
12:22:51 ernie easter: We do a lot of video work in my classroom.
12:22:54 Sarah S: @karenjan This is the first year we've had someone (me) to do tech integration with teachers - the collaboration factor has been GREAT, but it's only one block a day for half the year. It's been opening the eyes of the teachers to the work of other teachers in the building, though. Ripples . . .
12:23:49 dlaufenberg: @karenjan collaboration is expensive because it pays teachers to not be 'teaching'.  i worked in a beuatiful model that folded 5 years ago because there was no longer enough money to afford it.
12:23:53 KarenJan: @sarah - it's a great start, may it build into a tsunami that can't be stopped!
12:24:04 lorenchuk: Thanks for the chat, I have to go.  I will check on these links and follow through to the chat later. I enjoyed it.
12:24:11 Ann-NJTechTeacher: He also made some great observations about the need to look those professors in the eye to make a connection with them.
12:24:23 Brendan Murphy: got to go enjoy all follow me on twitter @dendari
12:24:25 Maureen: @sarah- that's a great start. I wish we could do that. I've asked to have my own teaching load reduced so I can do that- teaching 7 courses does not allow me time. So far, the answer has been no- they won't hire anyone to teach some of the stuff I do.
12:24:28 KarenJan: bye @lorenchuk
12:24:42 lorenchuk: Bye, lorenchuk on twitter - :-)
12:24:54 jimw: thanks Ann Lisa  bye
12:25:41 KarenJan: @dlaufenberg - good point - how do we overcome the cost issue?
12:25:55 Lisa Parisi: It has to be a priority when creating budgets.
12:26:15 KarenJan: tough in this difficult economic times
12:26:23 Lisa Parisi: Not buying textbooks or running sports or adding administrators...just add time
12:26:58 dlaufenberg: @karenjan I think we need to think a little more outside the box on what is affordable.  in AZ they bus a gagillion miles getting the students to school... I would like to see them go to a 4 day week, and then collaborate on the 5th day.  limit services, bus routes and the like
12:27:24 LindaN: At the elem level we have built in an additional grade level meeting time in the morning and aides cover the clases as students arrive until the morning announcents. It gives teachers about 50 mins each week - not enough but something.
12:27:48 ernie easter: Collaboration definitely needs to happen. Maybe we need to set it as a priorty and start to bargain it.
12:27:49 KarenJan: @lindan - that's a start
12:28:25 jackiegerstein: Kids - 3rd though 5th grade love panwadpa!
12:28:28 porchdragon: Just had a tech committee meeting where they are planning on bringing in tons of tech into our school. I demanded time for teachers to learn the tech first and everybody looked at me like I had the plague.Money is only available for things outside of planning usually
12:28:41 KarenJan: @dlaufenberg - that could work in some areas - we don't bus in our town so would not be a cost savings
12:28:50 Ann-NJTechTeacher: My 1st and 2nd grade students love it, but it is a very machine intensive website.
12:28:51 dlaufenberg: SLA uses the community partners to assist the students with experiential learning.  frees the faculty for consistent collaborative time each week.
12:29:26 porchdragon: money for colab or traing is usually not happening
12:29:40 Sheila: Another piece for creativity is inspiration. Where do you find your inspiration?
12:29:58 LindaN: We are looking at bringing in lots of tech for teachers also but the tech dept is looking to a small group of teachers who will s support it voluntarily-
12:30:02 ernie easter: My 7th and 8th graders love working together in our NoteShare Server notebooks that they can access from home or school.  At times gets a little chatty, but some great work.
12:30:18 Maureen: @mariak But we need to have teachers buy into the teacher as learner model for online collab to work. I still don't have that at my school
12:30:47 LindaN: I think we find inspiration here- among other passionate people
12:30:56 Maureen: @ Lisa I send people to projects- they tell me they will do it, I offer to help, but can't make them follow thru
12:31:01 Sarah S: I'm just getting the Moodle up and running. @mariaK is right - there has to be content or discussion there for them to make it feel valuable for their time.
12:31:26 KarenJan: and it's important to recognize we all can be creative! identify your passion, your inspiration
12:31:34 Maureen: I also think that there is a huge fear factor for teachers. They are afraid to put their thoughts on line
12:31:57 KarenJan: @maureen it seems like you work in a challenging environment
12:32:06 PeggyG: @Maureen-I think you've hit on a very important point! many teachers don''t think of themselves as life-long learners--sadly!
12:32:08 ernie easter: Teacher Leaders in Maine with the 1:1 laptop program will be starting an online collaborative project this month via StudyWiz. There will be a lot of sharing about what people from around the State of Maine are doing, what is working and what is not.
12:32:09 Sarah S: @maureen that's part of why I think the Moodle environment might be a safer first step for some of them. Teachers can talk among themselves without Admin in there.
12:32:11 dlaufenberg: i think someone needs to be the trailblazer, the workhorse who is willing to give time to facilitate change.
12:32:18 Maureen: I have a moodle for our teachers- they do not use forums or blogs- afraid that what they think/say will come back to haunt them/bite them
12:32:30 Sheila: So do we seek inspiration? Others don't??
12:32:36 jackiegerstein: http://www.joanganzcooneycenter.org/about/index.html - Joan Cooney Sesame Stree Workshop doing some great work with medea learning for kids
12:32:39 Lisa Parisi: Umm...I think that's me, Diana...the workhorse
12:32:44 porchdragon: @maurreen I agree-fear of reprisal is a huge problem of getting teahcers to talk online
12:32:58 KarenJan: what does reprisal look like?
12:33:30 Maureen: @porchdragon I don't have a blog, because I don't have a good filter- tend to say what I think. At a private school, this gets you in trouble.
12:34:01 porchdragon: @karenjan reprisal can come in many forms.Speaking as one who was practically forced from a school for speaking out
12:34:02 Maureen: @karenjan- it got me transferred out of Kindergarten to teaching science and computer
12:34:07 Sarah S: @KarenJan Yahoo! Love it!
12:34:29 dlaufenberg: @sheila i am perpetually inspired by the stories of the students that I get to learn with... and the goal of providing them with tools to be informed , productive citizens
12:34:37 jackiegerstein: Submerssive risktakers who are self-promoting
12:34:38 Sarah S: Great show - wonderful conversation.
12:34:47 Sheila: :)
12:34:54 dlaufenberg: @lisaP from one workhorse to another... have a great week!
12:35:02 KarenJan: thank you all - i learn so much from all of you!
12:35:03 brachsmith: amen
12:35:06 jackiegerstein: :D :D
12:35:07 porchdragon: thank you
12:35:10 Maureen: I will go be subversive at school- gotta fix a PC for tomorrow and grab audios for VTs
12:35:11 Lisa Parisi: http://ettconversations.blogspot.com/
12:35:15 ernie easter: Bringing parents into the classroom to view the video discussions is such a good idea.
12:35:34 KarenJan: subversive risktakers who are not afraid of risk talking or self-promotion!
12:35:44 KarenJan: risk taking
12:35:47 jackiegerstein: Submerssive teahcing strategies for next week ; )
12:35:59 jackiegerstein: Thanks!
12:36:03 Ann-NJTechTeacher: Have a great day everyone!
12:36:08 jackiegerstein: LOL
12:36:15 ernie easter: bye all
12:36:17 Maureen: Thank you all
12:36:21 Lisa Parisi: Bye everyone.
12:36:28 dlaufenberg: bye and thanks!
12:37:36 LindaN: Bye everyone and Thanks for a great chat!
12:38:29 tania: I just got here, are we all done?
12:38:52 KarenJan: sorry, it's done - get the chat once it's posted
12:39:12 tania: No worries, will do, is the time EST?
12:39:26 KarenJan: yes
12:39:31 MariaK: thanks all
12:39:36 Sheila: We are now on EDT in the states here.
12:39:48 tania: Ok, Thanks Karen, who suggests the topic for conversations?
12:40:28 Lisa Parisi: Anybody suggests topics...
12:40:42 Lisa Parisi: Thanks for joining us Tania...we do this each week
12:40:54 tania: Thanks, i will pop in next week.\
12:40:54 Lisa Parisi: It's a one hour show starting at 11:30 Eastern
12:41:04 Lisa Parisi: Great...see you then.