Conversations Show 4 August 10, 2008
Maria Knee and Lisa Parisi conversed with Ben Hazzard, Lisa Thumann and Ginger Lewman about the use of interactive white boards in the classroom. They discussed the benefits of using IBW's in the classroom, using the without the environment be too teacher centered, the advantages of one brand over an other and best practice in using IBW's.
MariaK: Thank you for joining us everyone - let me know if you want to be in the skype call
GingerTPLC: Not sure these "create" the teacher-centered classroom, but certainly do promote that thinking in many classrooms.
0bcdtech/Maureen: Great- got most of the lawn mowed this morning- got to work tomorrow :(
bcdtech/Maureen: I don't have a smart board... really curious about how people are using them.
kmulford: Love Vygotski (sp?)... scaffolded...
Ludmila: Lev Vygotsky
bcdtech/Maureen: I use a projector with my laptop- kids use it to show things, but not interactive. We don't have $$.
minhaaj: ok its working
minhaaj: thanks sheila
jepcke: I'd be curious to know how teachers/district chose between SMARTBoards and Promethean
lisa.thumann: jepcke Sometimes it's money
jepcke: @bcdtech That's a start!
colleenk: @Maureen How about the wii remote whiteboard?
jepcke: @lisa is there that much difference in price?
lisa.thumann: Promethean is a bit more expensive because it comes with more in-district support
lisa.thumann: a good thing i feel
bcdtech/Maureen: @Colleen I've looked at the directions, and talked to some people online- not everyone is thrilled...but may be a way to try it.
lisa.thumann: I LOVE both
blong: Like I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. Should I see or hear somethin in the EdTech Talk Ustream screen on the right?
jepcke: I agree we have both in my district but have purchased 9 Pormetheans I have the job of implementing and training teachers
LoriSheldon: @lisa, that's ok, you have to crawl before you walk
colleenk: @Maureen Not thrilled with the results? Doesn't work as well?
blong: I've got a Promethean Board but my district just announced that they're replacing all P. Boards with Smart Boards.
jepcke: I think when teachers can no longer find lessons to download that they can use/modify online they are compelled tolearn more about the software
bcdtech/Maureen: @Colleen- that's what a few folks have said- they are comparing it to the smartboard- so may not be a fair comparison.
Lparisi: We looked at both. Our local SB company has a huge school connection.
blong: I'm a little ticked b/c I don't think my p. board lessons will work on my Smart Board.
LoriSheldon: the CPS Chalkboards or activslates helps with the interaction
blong: Promethean Planet is also a great resource. Anybody know if P. Board stuf will work on a Smart?
jepcke: I have found them to be so motivating for students of all ages. They are quite riveted to what is going on on the IWB
jepcke: @blong Sorry, don't think it will, different software
blong: I love my CPS system. I'll never grade papers again!
LoriSheldon: @blong there is a promethean viewer you can download, but don't think it will be interactive on smart
bcdtech/Maureen: How much do these things cost??
jepcke: It's not about the tool, it's about how the tool is used in the hands of the teachers
blong: around $1500, I think.
GingerTPLC: I don't like IWB and will not buy them for my school
Lparisi: Hi Ted
LoriSheldon: I have used the board as a learning center, with interactive online games
blong: why don't you like them GingerTPLC?
jepcke: I showed Promethean to 38 K-8 teachers last Thursday, many levels of tech adoption, and they were soooooo excited about the potential
bcdtech/Maureen: I got 2 mimeos a few years ago- no one uses them. They live in the closet
GingerTPLC: thinking that student presentations can be done on less expensive tools
kmulford: I saw some nice options on NetTrekker for IWBs...
Ludmila: We have 2 SB on campus and I was promised to be given 25 clickers in the Fall
colleenk: @Maureen Are they keeping Roamer company?
sharon_elin: Suggest some low-cost presentation tools.
blong: yes, but what about the interactive aspect and reaching different learning styles (tactile, those who learn through movement)?
bcdtech/Maureen: @Ginger I use the laptop/projector and am very happy with it... not sure it's worth the $ for what I am doing. Maybe I should look at what I'm doing??
jepcke: It's another expense, but you can buy the tablets tha work with the boards and get the teacher moving around the room, handing it to the kids, etc
bcdtech/Maureen: @Colleen :-D But the roamer is coming out to the science lab this year
Ben Hazzard: I'm back... chat was causing a few issues....
sheila: I was against the glorified projection screen, until I broke my wrist. It allowed me to teach "painlessly". Now I want to use it better in my class.
Ben Hazzard: Lev Vygotsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Vygotsky
jepcke: @bcdtech Mimeo is very glitchy more trouble than useful. Keep 'em in the closet
GingerTPLC: I just wonder if most of what people are doing can be done less expensively
jepcke: AMEN to the speaker. She's got the right idea, IMO
GingerTPLC: we have a big screen TV we use with our polycom
GingerTPLC: we have a projector if it needs to be bigger
blong: does Smart have an online bank of resources that teachers can share?
bcdtech/Maureen: @jpecke I tried it out when I first bought them- they are cool, but a pain to set up.
jepcke: @blong, yes
sharon_elin: GingerTPLC, my district spent a fortune on equip and could have used free web2.0 tools
Ben Hazzard: Zone of Proximal Development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development
bcdtech/Maureen: Since I teach in a lab... I can use twiddla and have the kids on their computers and be interactive that way.
GingerTPLC: wonder if the expensive equipment can be used if people know all it's capabilities
jepcke: Wow, never thought of students having the software. How do they use it?
GingerTPLC: but rarely do teachers go deeper than the easier pieces
blong: my young kids (4 year olds to 12 year olds) are so engaged with the prospect of being able to get up and get active in their learning.
GingerTPLC: wonder if this is hurting the web2.0 "conversion" for reluctant teachers...if they see it's the same thing they've always been doing, only digital now
jepcke: @blong Yep!
blong: I find that their attention is much better when I use the cool, hi-tech tools.
sharon_elin: for teachers to "go deeper" and use all the capabilities, they need time for training that doesn't rob them from planning for instruction. Hard to find.
GingerTPLC: is standing up really "active" in their learning? wouldn't building something be more "active"
jepcke: @Ginger I think it is just the opposite
jepcke: Don't the slate work without the board, just need the software?
sheila: Slates are difficult to use. Need to look at the screen yet write on slate.
LoriSheldon: slates work well for kiddos in wheelchairs
bcdtech/Maureen: How is IWB transformative?
blong: I need more practice with my slate in order to feel comfortable.
GingerTPLC: good question, Maureen
GingerTPLC: agreen Maria!!!
bcdtech/Maureen: Yeah Maria!
GingerTPLC: yes, that is what I hear, Ben
Ludmila: do you use clickers with the SB/IWB?
LoriSheldon: physical interaction with material
blong: Ginger, building things would definately be active, but all lessons aren;t conducive for that, just like all lessons aren't perfect for the IWB. Each lesson demands a different tool to teach/learn.
kmulford: I'm wondering why every neighbor I have is outside mowing right now... making it very hard for me to hear you!
MariaK: I just don't get it - want lesson specifics that enable learning
GingerTPLC: @blong, but I think we should STRIVE to have all lessons have a tactile--a TRUE tactile--component for those kids.
GingerTPLC: otherwise we're just ignoring them
bcdtech/Maureen: What not just the geoboards?
GingerTPLC: pounding their round peg into the square hole
blong: I haven;t used my clickers with my IWB. I jsut project onto the wall for this. Is there an advantage to using the IWB with clickers?
sharon_elin: Oh OK, but when I do that I get a dialogue box that says "Open with..." and not sure what app to choose.
bcdtech/Maureen: Sorry, Why not use the real thing and just talk about it??
jepcke: Some of my teachers would rather have a document camera rather than a IWB based on their teaching style, subject taught, room set-up ,etc
sheila: You can record the lesson and save as a movie
bcdtech/Maureen: @Maria Sorry, my EC roots are emerging
jepcke: Great example Ben, Sheila
blong: you're right @Ginger, we should always strive to reach them, and I think that the more tools that we use to reach them ensures that they won't get so bored so easily.
GingerTPLC: It's not about the tools. It's about the teaching
jepcke: Why do tteachers need to be 'fixed'?
minhaaj: Teachers don't need to be FIXED
kmulford: WOw, how do you talk and type at the same time? I'm very impressed!
GingerTPLC: and PBL can use an IWB, I think, but not like the magic tool that many say it is
minhaaj: teaching does. and theres a difference between two
jepcke: @kymbeli will you have IWB @Gower?
blong: agreed, but just like with any job, good tools help you do your job that much more effectively. Uh oh! baby's hollering for lunch. Gotta go. Hate to miss this great discussion, but duty calls!
kmulford: There are (I think) two... they are "evaluating" whether they want more. I don't know where they are, but it's not in my lab or library.
bcdtech/Maureen: Why not just use the free online IWB? Rather than spend the $ on a tool.
jepcke: @bcdtech Does the online version have the same capabilities?
lisa.thumann: UDL Universal Design for Learning
GingerTPLC: IBW may be really nice in a classroom that doesn't have 1:1 laptops
Ludmila: What is the best way to teach teacher candidates to use SB/IWB? I am teaching MEthods of teaching and
jepcke: What about the way it helps a classroom 'go green not the most compelling reason to buy one, but it helps.
bcdtech/Maureen: @jpecke Some are interactive if kids have laptops.. but I can record the screen with free software if I want to.
Ben Hazzard: @GingerTPLC and the cost is not equal between 1 IWB & 25 laptops
Ludmila: I teach the course in the room with the SM
GingerTPLC: @lisa.thumann So IBW's are good for presenting?
Ben Hazzard: 1 IWB is a first step...
GingerTPLC: @ben, right. We are a 1:1 school (or should be--don't get me started on our ordering glitch) so that's why IBW isn't for us.
GingerTPLC: also, we're fully PBL
sheila: It helps to get students after school for extra help.
jepcke: I LOVE that teachers cannot use the IWB as a regular whiteboard, no dry erase on the IWBs
jepcke: @ginger I think you raise a good point. IWB and 1:1 may be more tech than is necessary. One or the other is probably best
Ben Hazzard: @GingerTPLC that is a key difference... but 1:1 also has major issues... another topic for another podcast
GingerTPLC: so for a school that doesn't have a perfect environ, IBW is likely awesome. BUT don't let it stop there. THey should continue to advocate for perfect environ and not settle on "ok."
jepcke: But schools can have a mixture of 1:1 and IWB based on teacher needs or grade levels, etc
Ben Hazzard: @GingerTPLC it is a first step... but there is a 2nd, 3rd, 4th step etc.
kmulford: @Ben, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that... blog?
GingerTPLC: @Ben, yes. Again, it's not about the tool or equip, but with 1:1, kids *can* be individually active.
GingerTPLC: but in many classrooms they're not
kmulford: @Ginger... Agree!
bcdtech/Maureen: I'm not looking at IWB for my classes... Teaching in a computer lab- son't need it, and teaching in science- we're "doing something" I rarely use a board for anything. JUst curious for use for others in my school.
Ben Hazzard: but learning is social... does 1:1 isolate?
Lparisi: @ben Wow..really good question.
GingerTPLC: @ben, it can, but shouldn't. And doesn't at TPLC. We are very social with our 1:1. But in some schools, it does.
kmulford: Not if used in other ways... collaboration is possible. You don't have to use every laptop for every activity!
Ben Hazzard: http://bit.ly/RiQao
Lparisi: When my kids work in groups, they use one computer for each group
jepcke: I think it comes down to time, time for teachers to make their own flipcharts/lessons.
GingerTPLC: We use 1:1 and the Google tools to collaborate at the same time.
kmulford: @LParisi Yes, we do that often...
jepcke: and the training we provide
kmulford: Share files needed by all later...
lisa.thumann: What about tablet PCs versus IWBs?
jepcke: training for anything, tech, pedagogy, etc
Ludmila: How are Sympodiums used in the schools?
bcdtech/Maureen: @Lumila What are they?
lisa.thumann: many teachers never get to see examples of best practices
Ludmila: and if they are used at all?
stacykasse: lisa, I agree with you about that
jepcke: @lis thuman Yes! Best Practice should be a part of the training, ongoing training
jepcke: @ludmila one of our teachers has a sympodium, but he doesn't take advantage of the features
Ludmila: A Sympoduium is a monitor with a pen that a teacher can use for a touch
Ludmila: I had one in my office before we got a SM
bcdtech/Maureen: @Ludmila- Thx- never heard of them
kmulford: I think the point is clear in Ben's comment... that the interactive classroom has to be in place before the IWB is going to be used interactively...
Ludmila: Our IT was cheap and bought a Sympodium
Ludmila: first and I was experimenting with it
stacykasse: I feel so behind the times with all the tech stuff...we have ONE IWB in our school
Ludmila: It is not tht exciting -- I think it is can be used for group or pairs to work in groups
daronow: 5 teachers at my school got IWBs installed this summer- we go for first training on the 25th
bcdtech/Maureen: @stacykasse- We don't have any
kmulford: Wow.... do people really ever think they've "reached the pinnacle of tech integ"? I thought it was something that you could never attain...
jepcke: PBL and learner-centered classroom are moe than tech it is a philosphical change in the way a teacher teaches
stacykasse: k...I don't think so...just look at Steve who finds something new every day
lisa.thumann: Tom Barrett's Video Tutorials http://www.whiteboardblog.co.uk/
GingerTPLC: @kmulford, I think some people really do think they've done it.
stacykasse: bc...then you're with us...what makes schools think that way?
lisa.thumann: Danny Nicolson http://www.whiteboardblog.co.uk/
stacykasse: And I do think it's more than "it's the money" issue
daronow: I want to make sure I don't make my class all about the IWB
jepcke: Which is a steeper learning curve
kmulford: @stacy Steve? Dembo?
kmulford: @Ginger That's amazing.
stacykasse: daro...I agree...it's a tool...not an end all
jepcke: @ginger that's kinda scary
stacykasse: but still it would be nice to have one
daronow: yes @ stacy - but I am sooo excited!
stacykasse: heck, my blackboards just got switched to a white board this summer
kmulford: Tom Barrett rocks!
GingerTPLC: @lucy are you an IBW fan?
jepcke: IS the uk whiteboard blog geared to Promethean?
Ludmila: can you type it in the chat?
LucyGray: I'm starting to be.... we're just getting started
stacykasse: Do most of you have promethean (which is what we are starting to get) or smartboards?
kmulford: @jepcke DK. Just love his work with GoogleDocs
daronow: ours are promethean
Ben Hazzard: http://pdtogo.com/smart
jepcke: Show best practices WITH the training
jepcke: ongoing training
stacykasse: now that would make sense
jepcke: Can you go to other schools to observe other classrooms?
stacykasse: on going...I still have people who don't know all the uses of outlook mail
daronow: our trainer is a teacher who got her board last year
stacykasse: does she share?
Ben Hazzard: http://whiteboardchallenge.wikispaces.com/
daronow: we're trying to get all teachers onboard for integrating some web 2.0 and 21st century skills - some still reluctant!
jepcke: Love the focused training. I;m sure teachers appreciate it too
Ludmila: I hope whiteboardchallenge change the dates for their challenges
GingerTPLC: Jess McCullogh is a great person to work with!
1bcdtech/Maureen: @daronow Just some :-)
jepcke: Can you put her wiki in the chatroom again?
lisa.thumann: @BEn I tweeted out that link - I thought it was an awesome idea!
sheila: @daronow - how are your starting?
GingerTPLC: @Ben, can we do the challenge on a home-made whiteboard?
daronow: @maureen -they either love it or hate it!
stacykasse: @ginger...a homemade white board?
daronow: @sheila we have an "action team" (me included) that is planning, implementing - we meet this Tuesday
Ludmila: Ben, It is interesting, but teachers are not yet in schools
GingerTPLC: @stacykasse Yes, my buddy made one with the WiiMote
Ludmila: I hope the dates will be changed
stacykasse: I saw that video and would love to do that
GingerTPLC: We'll be trying them a bit this year
stacykasse: @ginger...wasn't sure about the on/off button, though
bcdtech/Maureen: @ginger Did he follow the Youtube directions? Have you tried it?
GingerTPLC: @stacy I have no idea how it works. He built it through the lessons from Lee Chang (?) and he's such a geek. Built it back in May.
stacykasse: @ginger..i was watching that last night. I've got to get someone to do that for me.
jepcke: IT is a larger issue, a change in pedagogy. That takes longer to change. Also, will the district support this change? Easier to implement tools that change philosophy.
sheila: Or have the desire to make lessons better. Always first steps, just not the only steps.
jepcke: And change pedagogy over time
jepcke: with LOTS of training and support
GingerTPLC: GREAT question Maria! Thank you!! I always wondered too!
bcdtech/Maureen: @lparisi I have to plan every lesson assuming that the tech won't work.
GingerTPLC: @stacykasse Let's exchange Skypes and we can play with the homemade boards together!
Ludmila: if teachers and teacher candidates are exposed to Web 2.0 technology it will change the pedagogy
jepcke: I don't agrre. It's a different lesson with out the technology
GingerTPLC: I'm GingerTPLC, of course
Lparisi: and Maureen, when tech goes out for me, my whole plan is shot..everytime
bcdtech/Maureen: @lisa I guess I always have Plan B
kmulford: @jepcke I'm with you on that one.
jepcke: We chose Promethean because they have more resources, started as an education company, have great training and support
Lparisi: My plan b is "let's have some DEAR time until the network is up and running.
bcdtech/Maureen: @lisa May not be exactly the same, but I can get the points across that I need to
stacykasse: worst experience is when a student teacher incoporated tech and it failed during observation...you have to know what to do
jepcke: And we found the use of the pen was easier for kids to use rather than a finger too many missed touch points
stacykasse: @jepcke...I would think the pen would be easier.
GingerTPLC: fingers on board. Do you have germex nearby?
sheila: What's DEAR time?
stacykasse: How about reflective writing about what they learned already...while waiting for tech to revive
bcdtech/Maureen: @sheila drop everything and read
jepcke: We looked at EVERYBODY before deciding on Promethean Also, they have a primary version of the software
Amy: solution to fingers on board, use a highlighter on the tray and use the pen
jepcke: Which is great
sheila: Ohh tx
stacykasse: Like SSR...sustained Silent Reading
jepcke: Too many pens to deal with in SMART in our opinion
Amy: we also use pointers for SMART
jepcke: We found that an elbow would hit the board and then the finger and then the touch point would be the elbow, not the finger
jepcke: or wrist
jepcke: no problem with Promethean, the wrist can steady the hand and then the pen is the touch point
stacykasse: okay...to your suggestion, though...
GingerTPLC: seems to be like a Ford or Chevy discussion.
jepcke: talk about the primary version of the Promethean software it looks like kidpix, very intuitive
stacykasse: I always feel it's whatever the district gets a good deal on
GingerTPLC: Ben's breaking up into digital robot voice!
jepcke: not true! I download the software last week from promethean neede serial nos, but download from interenet
Ben Hazzard: sorry I'min the country!
Ben Hazzard: rural
stacykasse: have to run, but thanks for my first introduction to edtech
jepcke: Bye Stacy see u next time
Lparisi: Thanks for coming, Stacy.
stacykasse: have a great sunday, all. thank you
GingerTPLC: bye stacy!
Lparisi: Hope to see you next week.
kmulford: What's next week's topic? I have to go too... lots of traffic in my kitchen all of a sudden.
lisa.thumann: @jepcke Did you download an upgrade or the whole thing?
jepcke: @lisa the whole thing. 7 separate downloads: activstudio and activprimary and all the resource packs
jepcke: got the info from our promethean rep
Ben Hazzard: I've got to go soon.... lunch tim!
jepcke: Bye Kymberli, I'll email the Google Teacher Academy info to you
lisa.thumann: @jepcke Not supposed to be - would love to know the link please
Ben Hazzard: time!
colleenk: Another good show - see you next week.
kmulford: Thanks @jepcke! Bye all! Thanks for the great discussion!
jepcke: @lisa, don't know if I still have it. We now have the CDs that came with our boards
jepcke: Will look for it, though
lisa.thumann: I AGREE WITH BEN!!
Lparisi: Me, too.
jepcke: I agree Ben,
GingerTPLC: great discussions as always
jepcke: @lis thuman DM me your email and I'll send you what I find.
bcdtech/Maureen: Thank you for another great show- learned a lot
jepcke: got it thanks
bcdtech/Maureen: Gotta go- rain's coming this way and more work to do outside.
Ludmila: THank you for the show. I wish I had the answers to my questions -- how better train teacher candidates?
jepcke: Yes Ben, take them from where they are
jepcke: @ginger that's what makes discussions interesting
lisa.thumann: Bye everyone - it was a pleasure chatting with you all.
Lparisi: Archive is http://ettconversations.blogspot.com
Ben Hazzard: talk to you later!
GingerTPLC: Thanks! Bye!
Lparisi: Thanks for coming everyone
sheila: Thanks all!